I don't know man. Sakura was praised by Kakashi for holding her ground when the Demon Brothers attacked. The first Zabuza fight I will admit I overlooked, but the Haku fight would probably have gone a lot better if he hadn't been an idiot and gotten himself trapped with Sasuke.(not pulling this shit out of my ass, Sasuke acually reprimands him for his stupidity. .. and lets face it here he had a point). In short Naruto created as many problems as he solved.

Normal genin aren't meant to be in A-ranked missions, nor are they supposed to face off against Sannin (Sasuke lasted as long as he did 'cause Orochimaru wanted him to) or Jinchuriki for that matter.

Sakura is clearly out of her depth in these situations and she's meant to be. The fact that Naruro and Sasuke do better than her just enforces my point of them not being normal.

 

Everyone debating about Sakura needs to remember something.

Sakura's entire character is based around Sasuke. She's not meant to add to the story through her own character. She's not MEANT to develop into a force to be reckoned with. She's not meant to carry her own weight or to be equal or even near-equal to Naruto and Sasuke.

Her entire character revolves around Sasuke. Everything about Sakura has something to do with Sasuke. She's a Ninja because she wanted to be with Sasuke, she gets stronger so that she could catch up to and retrieve (and be with) Sasuke. She lies to her friends and misrepresents her emotions to Naruto.. all for Sasuke.

Sakura is not a character created with the purpose of being anything approaching an honestly developed and portrayed character. She has no life, no destiny, no passions of her own that don't revolve around Sasuke. She's just a plot point in character form. The only other reason Kishi ever had any use or purpose for her besides as a Sasuke Plot Point, was to fuck with the readers and 'hide' NaruHina behind NaruSaku that never had any chance.

You can argue about her usefulness or lack thereof, you can argue about her intelligence or talent or whatever. But you have to keep in mind that unlike Naruto and Sasuke, Sakura was never destined to be anything more than yet another facet of Sasuke's story. She's not meant to have a story of her own, because as far as Kishimoto is concerned her story doesn't matter. All that matters is Sasuke.

The same can be said for Hinata and Naruto, of course. The only differences being that Hinata gets even LESS development (while still somehow having a better story) and was designed to appeal to the Yamato Nadeshiko archetype as opposed to the Violent Tsundere archetype.

 

I actually agree here. According to Kishimoto its totally okay to be in love with a sociopathic, abusive guy and you totally should marry the person who has been known to stalk you your entire life, 'cause that's not creepy or disturbing, its adorable.
Bottomline... I blame Kishimoto for how Sakura turned out. It was a character with potential which eventually ended up being the poster-child for battered women.

 

Meh, your original question that was commented on was why Sakura gets flak for being a fangirl and not Naruto. I don't consider Kishimoto's actions as all that relevant to that. Saying it's his fault doesn't retroactively change the story to make her more useful. It's also not just against people she's not suppose to be able to fight like Zabuza, Gaara, or Oro. She also didn't do anything against that Ame team to get the scroll and she didn't go with Shika's team to retrieve Sasuke.

 

You misunderstood my point. I wasn't arguing that she was being useful. I agree she wasn't for most of Part-I. I was just saying that it was unfair to expect her to be useful in the situations she was constantly thrown in that's all.
I don't remember much about that Ame team fight (but I will give you the benefit of doubt there)and The Sasuke Retrieval Team was a total sausage fest, a team chosen by Shikamaru. Can't really blame her there.

 

Didn't she try to join the retrieval team and got told to fuck off, or am I misremembering?

 

She showed up and Shikamaru said she couldn't come and that she already failed to convince Sasuke before she actually said anything. So I don't know if she'd actually intended to join and resorted to begging Naruto or if she'd just planned to beg from the start.

 

She met them at the gate but didn't say anything about going herself. Besides it's not like Lee was given leave to go either. He just had the balls to do what he wanted.

It's not just her being useless that stands out when comparing her to Naruto it's her attitude in situations where she's useless. Naruto always tries to act whether he's outclassed or not. He jumped in to fight Orochimaru, he tried to attack Tsunade, he attacked Zabuza, Haku, and Kabuto. Sakura just kind of stands in the background. She's suppose to be the smartest one on the team but doesn't even display that by making strategies or seeing through enemy plans. When Naruto was captured by that Ame ninja right after they enter the forest Sasuke spots that he's a fake while Sakura probably would have gotten shanked. Then when a fight breaks out she just stands there. 5 minutes later when Naruto is replaced again she fails to see through it once more.

 

Completely agree with everything @WalkingDisaster said.

I have nothing against Sakura the character. As @crimson sun06 has said, she doesn't have the backstory that Sasuke or Naruto have. She's very much a "normal" girl. There's nothing wrong with that.

What made her a shitty character is what Kishimoto's role for her was.

She was mainly there to emphasize the fact that Sasuke was the cool, respected guy in comparison to Naruto's low status. Kakashi wasn't going to really do that for them. And there was very little interaction with other Konoha nin until the Chuunin exams. Her entire purpose in Naruto was initially to play the fangirl.

After that, it was to show the contrast. Show how awesome and brave Naruto and Sasuke were for getting involved in fights that she was too scared to. She was the contrast to their own rivalry.

Her natural development would see her fade out of the ninja scene on the level everyone else was operating on. Naruto and Sasuke fighting S-class missing nin, Akatsuki becoming the main bad guys, etc. How does Sakura operate on that level? So she got a rather artificial power up to keep her relevant. Same can be said about most of the Rookie Nine.

It's one of the biggest issues I have with Naruto. A good shounen has consistent power levels to an extent. Take a look at One Piece. 700 episodes in and the crew are still orders of magnitude weaker than the strongest people in the world - the Admirals, Hawk Eye and certain Shichibukai, etc. In Naruto, the side characters level up to keep them relevant with the plot.

Again though, I don't have an issue with her character in episode 1. One of the story concepts I really like is seeing a character forced to go down a route they never originally planned for or wanted to. Seeing Naruto achieve his episode 1 dream of becoming Hokage is boring to me. Seeing the Taylor, who dreamed of becoming a hero, becoming a criminal warlord was interesting (Worm). And similarly, seeing Sakura, who didn't really have any real aspirations beyond Sasuke, suddenly finding herself in the position she has been in is another one I find interesting.

But in the end it's all about personal preference and what you like in stories. @Republic finds her character repugnant because she went traitor and won't enjoy Loyalty because of that. I find her interesting because of that.

 

Urgh. You've obviously no idea what a real stalker is.

Hinata was a very shy girl who had a crush on a boy. Simple as that. There was absolutely nothing creepy about her actions.

Sakura's obsession with Sasuke, though, is admittedly pretty aggravating and senseless.

 

considering she hid behind poles to follow Naruto a lot and watched him, adopted his beliefs and outlook on life, and even almost got hersel killed to impress him doesn't count at all as her being a stalker? What does, Although Sakura kept asking Sasuke out and always followed him looking to impress him, Hinata hid in the Woods watching Naruto train for a couple of years. Nothing Sakura does is that bad.

Edit

The amount of times I've edited this is insane

 

Hinata admired Naruto, and was inspired by him. Her outlook on life was shaped by following his example to the best of her ability. A stalker is very different. They harass their targets and often threaten them. Their actions are usually distressing and invasive. I don't see how Hinata was anything like that. Okay, she watched Naruto from afar on a few occasions, but most kids with a crush would probably do the same from time to time.

Sakura's obsession with Sasuke is disturbing because all he ever did was belittle and abuse her, but she still loved him. What a great message for young girls.

Anyway, this particular topic isn't something I care to discuss any further. I find it one of the most uninteresting aspects of Naruto.

 

Can this "discussion" go away? Maybe into a different thread, like the Official Manga discussion thread?

 

Sorry to continue this, but you say Hinata watching Naruto every few occasions is fine then go on to harp on Sakura for the same thing more or less, except she just asked him out a lot and was doing what "any girl with a crush would", and where does the abuse from Sasuke come from he seemed to just ignore her most of the time really and just call her out on being annoying like most 12 year old kids who have an annoying person following them around would. it's also a great example to girls to be obsessed over the guy who ignores your existence most of the time right?

 

Sasuke was the most unimaginably enormous cunt to Sakura right up until chapter 699. Not even exaggerating. Even after belittling her, threatening to kill her, trying to kill her, and so on for the entire manga, Sakura still tries to offer him an olive branch right before his final fight with Naruto. Straight up confesses to still loving him after all this time. And what does he do? What does he do? He puts her under with a genjutsu of him shoving his hand through her chest.

He didn't have to do that. But he did. Naruto forgetting about Hinata's confession because the world is ending is nothing in comparison. Sasuke knew what he was doing, and he did it frequently.

 

Please, for the love of god, I just want to read some new fucking stories. Maybe even find a hidden gem to kill some time in my miserable life. We all know that the women in Naruto are terribly written, hell, most of the men are too. Debating who sucks less does nothing.

Stop it.

 

Except that Hinata doesn't do the things Sakura does. Hinata doesn't abuse people who talk badly about Naruto. Hinata never sacrificed a real friendship all over a boy. Hinata trains rigorously hard in order to make up for her failings as a ninja, both real and perceived, Hinata chose a boy with a bright, sunny personality and endless determination that gave her hope she too could be happy and strong some day.

Naruto didn't Ignore Her Existence, he simply didn't know she had a crush on him, and lacked the awareness to notice she was watching him from a distance until he was outside of the village. If you remember... Naruto cheers Hinata on, thanks her for giving him confidence right before the finals, and gets absolutely FURIOUS after Neji beats her down both verbally and physically.

Sakura abuses Naruto when he talks shit about Sasuke. Sakura achieves in the Academy in an effort to impress Sasuke. Sakura puts her training off for more girly (Sasuke) pursuits on a frequent basis, Sakura pestered Sasuke for dates constantly. Sakura sacrificed her friendship with Ino over Sasuke, after INO was the one to save her from bullying and became her friend out of genuine good will. Sakura chose Sasuke because he was cool and good looking and had a tragic past.

Sasuke ignores Sakura almost entirely. Was she annoying? Yes. But that's no reason to disregard her and treat her like she's utterly unimportant. Did Sasuke ever bother to tell her to stop hitting on him? Did we ever see him say 'I'm not going to date you/I'm not interested in dating you'? Or did he just emo-strut away and 'suffer' a pretty girl liking him, a lot, in silence?

Sasuke the preteen didn't exactly abuse Sakura, but he didn't treat her with any sort of regard or care, either. Be it as a teammate OR as a person. Shippuden!Sasuke makes it very obvious that he gives absolutely no fucks about her and would just as soon kill her as look at her.

Sakura was obsessive, because her target made it pretty obvious he did not want her affections, but she shoved them at him on a frequent basis anyway.

Hinata was not obsessive, because her target had no idea she had a crush on him and yet he still treated her kindly and with respect. He swore a Blood Oath of Vengeance (the only time we EVER see him do such a thing) on her behalf, after all.

The moral of their stories is different.

Hinata's is that devotion to a good man lends itself to a good life and happy relationship.

Sakura's is that devotion to a shitty man lends itself to a shitty relationship and a stressful life.

Neither are particularly realistic, what with the absolutely absurd ideals behind Love in Naruto, but Hinata, at least, chose a man worth choosing.

Sasuke's just a prick. Gaiden!Sasuke is less of a world-shaking prick, but he's still an utterly apathetic, cold, distant prick.

 

On the subject of Sakura, Effloresco Secundus updated.

For those who don't know, this story is a Harry Potter crossover: Hermione died at some point and "woke up" in control of Sakura's body at age 6. Minus the HP elements (i.e. magic) and Sakura writing English poetry, it's basically a story about an actually competent and not annoying Sakura and Team 7. The magic stuff has become more important, and interesting, in recent chapters, and I'm genuinely looking forward to wherever the author takes us.

Another recommendation: From the Garden of Gods. This one is also a crossover, but with Inu Yasha. The gist is that Kagome shows up in the desert and is taken in by Suna. Her miko magic eventually shows itself in the form of growing plants, which makes her an immediate person of interest in the resource strapped village. The first arc is just wrapping up, and is focused primarily on Kagome learning about this new world she's in, culminating in a "fight" with a Shukaku controlled Gaara. It's interesting and a tad different, so check it out if you need something to read.

 

Been enjoying Effloresco Secundus for a while now. As Banta said, as opposed to Hermione it feels more like a more competent, mature Sakura most of the time.

There are a lot of things it does quite well, such as her interaction with her teammates. I love the way that Kakashi intentionally quashes any internal suspicions he has about her strangely mature outlook (because the first question would be "Is she a spy?") because he likes her.

Another thing that's done well is that there are some points where Hermione scoffs at the world, thinking herself the veteran from a more bloody war. But a lot of times she's force to reassess this, realizing that ninja are pretty damn violent too.

That being said. What the hell was up with the chapter published this morning? It was like, orders of magnitude crapper in writing quality than everything else.

Spoiler

I suppose it's possible that the author just sucks at writing large scale battles, but god. There was absolutely no emotion, the faceless enemies were just comically evil and a bunch of genin seemed to be killing them left and right. It's one of the worst renditions of the Sound Invasion that I've ever read.

Well, apart from that I'd highly recommend it to those who enjoy Sakura-centric fics.

 

First off... can we get a moderator in here? Now that that's out of the way... So yeah... stalker tendencies. I suppose it would be hypocritical of me for calling out Hinata in this after spending all this time defending Sakura. Tbh though the target of my scorn was Kishimoto and the message he was trying to send through her and not Hinata herself.