In other words any story where Harry actually does something beyond school.

 

I hope that it is irony. (counterexample: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5201703/1/By-the-Divining-Light )

 

lol I wasn't trying to be a dick about religion being in fan fiction, I'd just legitimately forgotten how often they use religious phrases. Excellent post though.

 

Heh, I just like to bring up ancient history when it's relevant. However, since I have a mind like a sieve, it's usually only my own posts I can remember.

 

Actually, I think the role of religion in Wizarding life is a fascinating question. The drafting of the Statute of Secrecy coincides with the deposition of the Catholic monarch James II Glorious Revolution of 1689 some 150 years post-Reformation, which might suggest that the Wizarding world at the time remained predominantly Catholic. But if we are to posit a reasonable degree of pre-Statute cultural exchange, it seems probable that the Wizarding world had at least some Anglican bent. Certainly, its chief Christian trappings (a government-sponsored hospital named for a saint; celebration of Christmas) could lean either way.

While the British crowd seems mostly secular, I would bet the Americans are far more religious. Rowling probably centered the American magical academic community in Salem as a tip to the witch trials, but this definitely has interesting world-building implications. Evidently, there was a sizable population of English Wizarding Dissenters to emigrate from their homeland and establish a presence in New England. What happens when the curtain of the Statute falls in 1692, the same year as the witch trials in Salem? Has the Statute been pushed through on the backs of the surviving Puritan Wizards, decimated and betrayed by their spiritual community? Does this push the community away from God, or further increase their fervor? Do American wizards even celebrate Christmas? After all the Independent Harry stories that denigrate the British Wizarding community in favor of America, at least, I would like to see a story that depicts the American Wizarding government as a Puritan theocracy.

On a more metaphysical level, magic has potentially damning implications in regards to a religion that has some theological centering around miracles. While magic might make such an act easily fakeable in the eyes of Muggles, the resurrection of Jesus remains credible as a miracle under magical law. From a historical standpoint, the Wizarding community probably may have access to sources (magically preserved paper records, ghosts, period paintings) that could better shed light on the question of Jesus's divinity.

Anyway, I know many people don't want to read fanfiction featuring poorly conceived religious ramblings, but I definitely believe that religion is an important element of world-building and characterization. A major plot point of my may-never-be-completed-or-published foray into the Narnia fandom is a philosophical conflict against Aslan starring a Marsh-wiggle deserter with pronounced anti-theistic leanings. I have also written a scene for my in-progress rewrite of "For Children Ardent . . ." in which Penelope Clearwater grapples with her faith against a very Wizard-centric framework. I don't know if it will make the final edit as it's the only scene I have written from a perspective outside of Harry's, but I may publish it as a one-shot in the future.

 

Remember the Statute is an international one. While British, and European, politics may have had a significant role in it being brought about, we can't assume that it came about for any strictly British causes.

 

Also assuming that wizards were christian seems short sighted, as if wizards appeared after the 4th century. While religion might not be a foreign concept for wizards what would christianity possibly offer them. Wouldn't someone that has magic assume themselves to be blessed by their god? So when this foreign, notably anti-witch, religion comes along why would they convert?

On the other hand the society we seem in canon is totally post christianization. The only way I see around it would be using the "every significant figure in history is a wizard" trope.

There is also the possibility that the statute was just codification of a long standing tradition of separation. The need for the enforcement of the statute created the ministry and it's influence settled the society into the shape it is now.

 

Or maybe they never really bothered with religion and it is purely cultural influence?

 

Actually, his assumption is pretty astute. Why else would the government be the "Ministry of magic," rather than something else. The word "ministry" in government is linked explicitly with christendom in Europe. Now, you may argue that it was the magical world copying the Muggle world. So be it, but how far does that go? Did they then copy Christmas and other religious holidays? And why even do that if there is no background to the holiday.

That line of logic makes no sense to me. The "Ministry" of magic, and moreover, the references to the Order of Merlin in reflection to the British Ministry and Knighthood show, IMO, a connection between the two, possible brought together through Merlin and King Arthur. If not then, then at some previous juncture.

For that reason, the overarching culture would be that of christendom, but not necessarily Christianity. Furthermore, since being a pureblood can mean just having all four parents be magical (though we know families like to trace it back much further) and that there are very few if any true pureblood families left, there's obviously been a very large influx of Muggleborns and half-bloods in the society over the last 1000+ years. Up until about a century ago, that pretty much meant an influx of those raised within christendom.

The only caveats to that, are those who would have come on account of colonization to Britain, and then their children or descendants end up at Hogwarts. And yet, even there, as if often said, The cross followed the flag. So that's not even a guarantee.

 

What religious holidays do they celebrate exactly? Christmas and easter? Those are just equinoxes that have been celebrated in nearly every culture since someone noticed that seasons change.

I do agree that the culture has to be of "christandom". If there was cohabitation until the 17th century there would be significant mixing and nonmagical people have a significant numerical advantage. My argument was more about the fact that there is no real belonging to the church from wizards. If wizards existed before the widespread introduction of christianity they have a established history to easily resist. Sure they could gain the culture and expressions through osmosis, but not the faith.

Also ministry comes from latin meaning to serve and wasn't actually used in the British government until the 20th century.

 

Jesus was a muggleborn wizard, and wizards today are mostly just embarrassed by the fact. in fact the real reason for the witch hunts and later the statute of secrecy is that the Church wanted to hide the fact. Vatican pays ICW heafty sums in gold every year to keep the wizards quiet.

 

don't have time to type out answers in full so, tl;dr version. . . .

Christmas = equinox . . . in 994, not 1994. Can't discount the millennium of time that has swept past.

Minister. Yes . . . and no. Actually, the synchronic meaning of the latin in the 1300's when it made its way into English, was "priest." NOt servant. Not any longer. That was an older meaning that faded out a couple centuries before, if not more. My point in all that, was that the wizarding world as presented by JKR, is one that has taken on most of the trappings of christendom.

Coupled with the Muggle borns and half-bloods that in that time period, would have a better than 50/50 chances of attending some type of Christian religious service at the time, yes, the assumption of the wizarding world of Britain being more closely associated with a christian/christendom perspective than any other religion is fairly accurate.

But again, I go back to my original argument. JKR didn't get into it, because she really didn't want to bring religion in the story on that level. Her Christian faith is very evident in the story, but "religion" in the wizarding world, is not. Thankfully.

 

A muggle-born wizard with wandless magic so strong that he would put Voldemort and Dumbledore to shame. He was ordered to death by puppets under the imperius of pure-blood supremaists.

 

Two quick questions:

1) Is there any canon evidence that wand holsters exist? I mean they pop a whole bunch in fanfics but I can't remember if they have a canon basis or if they're just something that took on a life of their own in fanfiction.

2) Is there any canon basis for occlumency being used in duelling?

 

1. No, but this is something that can easily be made by anyone with half a brain. Maybe not the "spring loaded, snap your wrist and it's there in your hand" kind, but making some sort of wrist sheath -- easily.

2. Yes (circumstantial) When Harry was dueling Snape soon after Dumbledore's death Snape told him to close his mind, or something to that effect, as he batted away everything that was thrown at him.

 

1: No. And in OoTP Moody told Harry to stop putting his wand in his pocket (better wizards then you have blown off their buttocks), so at least Harry doesn't use any wand holsters.

2: Snape beat Harry at the end of book 6, because he could use Legilimency to predict what Harry would do.

 

1. You can only say that Harry didn't use any wand holsters that night, specifically. Can't argue a whole from a part.

2. Legilimens is a spell that is cast (except for Voldemort, and he has both flown and cheated death, so the normal rules don't really apply) whereas Occlumency is something that is done in the mind. The only time we actually see the spell being used is Snape, and he casts it while training Harry.

Now, outside of canon, but sticking to canon guidelines, I think you can argue that being a legilimens gives a person the ability to pick up on the thoughts when they're being driven strongly by emotion, as Harry's was in the battle referenced above.

I'm trying to think of anywhere else in canon that legilimency is said to have been used, but no spell was cast. I can't come up with any.

 

HBP in the bathroom after the Malfoy fight, when Snape wanted to know where Harry found the Sectumsempra spell.

 

I always got the impression that Snape only spoke the incantation in Order of the Phoenix as a part of trying to teach Harry Occlumency. The way Snape made it sound, eye contact was essential, yet not necessarily require by someone like Voldemort. So the way I've always view it, a competent Legilimens can breach another person's with eye contact alone, as well as breach another person's mind using the spell without eye contact, while Voldemort is just fucking awesome at it and doesn't require a spell or eye contact to know if his minions are lying to him.

 

Is it explicit that he used it? I thought he recognized the spell, and after seeing how Harry reacted, plus his vast improvement in potions, just put two and two together.