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The DLP Take: British Government

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by BioPlague, Jun 13, 2007.

  1. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Yoda Admin

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    Monetarily, yup.

    In theory, it's supposed to favor - or at least protect - everyone. Regardless of operating knowledge.

    ONOEZ WE'RE TURNING INTO EURARABIA EVERYONE PANIC.

    The KKK would probably slaughter them, and given that they'd have no voting bloc, they'd fail rapidly with very little publicity.
     
  2. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I have two theories about the British magical government, one fanon (created for my story, Return) and the other an explanation of canon. I’ll start with the fanon idea.

    There are three major entities in the wizarding government, vaguely analogous with the American system. Firstly, you have the Ministry, headed by the Minister. He holds executive power, and is analogous to the President. Secondly, you have the Warlocks council, analogous with the senate, which acts as a balance to the Minister’s power. The Warlock’s council “belongs” to the Monarch, as it were, and is situated in the houses of Parliament (like a third house). In ages past, back when the monarchy was stronger, the Warlocks council was stronger in influence than the Minister, but now power has shifted. Thirdly, you have the Wizengamot, the judiciary branch, analogous to the supreme court.

    So that’s my fanon idea.

    In canon. I believe the wizarding “government” is just an extension of the Muggle one – a Ministry no different to, say, the Ministry for Education, or the Ministry of Defence. However, only the magical people know this, and they certainly don’t tell the Prime Minister, as they like their autonomy.
     
  3. BioPlague

    BioPlague The Senate DLP Supporter

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    How does the latter (canon) work? It hinges on everyone keeping their mouths closed and keeping it secret, which a squib or angered person who has anti-government/administration of the time tendencies would love to spoil.

    Ministers of Defence and Education are appointed by the party or by the Minister and serve at the leisure of the Minister. The beginning of Half-Blood Prince shows the Minister for Magic speaking down to the Prime Minister although I think they're both on the same wavelength, powerwise.

    If the secret got out and obliviators failed to act quickly, the PM or the party could move quickly in secret to put their head in place. It would be all legal, according to whatever writ or doctrine you seem to be placing here...

    Which is the question - what is it that makes the Ministry for Magic just a department rather then the government of an actual nation (I like to think of the UK and the UK of MB (Magical Brethren) just for ease of discussion)? The Queens' decree?

    Purebloods would definitely not tolerate this and this change would have to have taken place in the earlier or even later parts of the 1900s as the Pureblood grasp over society seems to just now be relenting (although just slightly). The ministry officials in power were until HBP, lobbied by Purebloods or were Purebloods for all we know.

    It just doesn't seem likely that they'd ever put themselves under the Prime Minister or even recognize the Prime Minister as a power-player in anything they have to do.
     
  4. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    None of the Ministers we've seen haven't appeared that concerned about legality, and would probably snub the PM even if he did try to assert authority...but you have a point, it's all very precarious, and obviously the Minister is chosen by some other method than the PM picking him...

    I like the idea of it being involved with the Monarchy, and I think this has canon evidence to (see the Warlock's council mentions in FB and QttA).

    Perhaps the Warlock's council was a sort of wizarding Privy coucil to the Queen? But when Cromwell et all happened and the Monarchy was reduced in power and the Parliament grew in power, the Ministry took centre stage and the Queen's (or King's) council was reduced in power.

    It would be an interesting idea for a fic, some sort of political power struggle between Monarchists and Parliamentarians.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  5. Darius

    Darius 13/m/box

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    Taure <3<3
     
  6. Garret P.I.

    Garret P.I. Backtraced

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    Okay, did a little research on the actual makeup of the Ministry of Magic.

    First off, according to Fantastic beasts and where to find them... the ministry is made of seven and only seven departments
    1. Department of Magical law enforcement
    2. Department of Mysteries
    3. Department of Magical Games and Sports
    4. Department of Magical accidents and catastrophes
    5. Department of International magical cooperation
    6. Department of Magical transportation
    7. Department for the regulation and control of magical creatures.

    The specific reference to this is page XVIII in FB
    with the quote so you can see this.
    Fantastic beasts is canon... thus this statement is canon. Therefore since it says "the remaining six" that indicates there are 7 and only 7 departments in the ministry... which leaves it woefully incomplete if it's meant to be a whole and functional government.

    That said... if this is all of the departments, then it's basically in incomplete bureaucracy.

    As it stands, there are no departments to handle magical trade (except international trade), taxes, health (including certification of healers), education, land ownership, or any of the other myriads of duties that a government fills.

    Now, you might say "but you don't need a whole department for health care if they only have one hospital" to which I would reply, "Where does it say they only have one hospital?" St Mungos is the only one we've read of, but given that it's in london, what about people in Ireland, or Scotland? Sure, if they're capable they can apparate, or floo there if there is a connected fireplace, but what if they can't and require physical transport? There'd have to be other hospitals other than St Mungo's. Just saying.

    So either FB is wrong and the wizarding gov't has more depts that comprise a complete government, or it is right... and the ministry of magic only covers the magical aspects of magical citizens lives and either leaves the mundane stuff (such as buying and selling land) to the muggle government... leaving the mundane aspects of their lives to muggle government.

    As to the conversion rate for pounds to Galleons. The fact that there is one tells you something... that the wizarding folk maintain financial ties to the muggle world enough that exchange of currency is needed.

    I'd expect that things like muggle clothing (under the robes) would be commonplace... and the various sundries (soap, makeup, toothpaste, tooth brushes (knight bus ref), shoes, and the like) are purchased from the muggle world since they'd be vastly cheaper to purchase given economy of scale.

    You know... this could honestly be an interesting hook for a fic. What happens if the statute of secrecy is shattered?

    For example... suppose, during the second war (set between OOtP and HBP) a muggle BBC news crew is on hand live at a disaster and they catch aurors and death eaters going at it in a pitched battle. The fight is broadcast live to millions of homes... and the camera people and such get killed by stray curses.

    Reports come in all over the country and because of technology there are too many muggles seeing it for obliviators to handle. How can you erase or deny facts seen by millions. The main government denies it, claiming it's a hoax, but more reports keep coming in.

    Suddenly the whole statute of secrecy is blown when some muggle borns who lost their parents come forward and prove that magic exists and tells the story of what's actually going on.

    The thing is... squibs really can't do anything in the magical world... so having them placed in government jobs might be where they all end up...existing inside the main government, maybe alongside parents of magical children or muggleborn wizards and witches that opt out of the mainstream magical world because it's just too foreign to them, taking care of the mundane needs of the magical community. After all... someone has to maintain the running water and the sewer system.

    Besides, the Statute of secrecy has only been in force since 1692... that's really only 300 years... or basically only 3 or 4 generations of wizards. Historically for them... it's about like WWII is for kids today... a relatively recent event historically.

    Why not? The Queens' decree might very well hold sway. Hell, perhaps that's precisely why the Royal family still exists... that the whole Royal Family is magical and thus acts as a living bridge between the two worlds. It'd explain their focus on proper breeding.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  7. Mordac

    Mordac Minister of Magic DLP Supporter

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    It's not a theory. Rowling said there are about three thousand magical people in the UK[1] (not counting sentient magical creatures), so that makes out about 300,000 wizards in the world.

    On an unrelated note, it's interesting to point out that Rowling said Muggle and Wizard wards feed each other in this interview, noting that WWII and Grindelwald were connected. That shows quite a bit of intermingling. I've seen a fic where Grindelwald was presented as the opposite of Voldemort, someone who was trying to merge the magical and muggle worlds.
    This would actually be a good idea for a fic, where Grindelwald plans to have all the German wizards force-breed with muggles to eventually create a perfect AND magical Aryan race to rule the 1000 year Reich.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2007
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