Most, if not everybody, has moved on from Zoe. In fact I've seen her mentioned here today more then I have anywhere else in the last three or four days. People are focusing more on the censorship, doxxing and the google group.

 

And that's great. Those are things that we should be focused on. But that one line I quoted was just so ridiculously stupid to me that I couldn't not comment on it. Everything I'd say on everything else has already been said by other people.

 

If anything it's kinda sad since she's tried a few times to get back in the spot light. When the Zoe thing was still...a thing most people I talked to were more angry about who she was sleeping with rather then how many.

 

It just irritates me because there are so many things that people could attack her over. Her using Robin Williams death to badly plug Depression Quest or whatever. Getting that feminist gamer charity thing shut down. Or even the fact that she keeps trying to jump back in the spotlight over this.

I mean, I would love to see somebody say 'Hey, look, Zoe. Yeah, we're kinda over here on this thing now? If you could keep up, that'd be great'.

And not 'well, she's a whore, so... WHORE.'

 

It happens, both sides have their crazies that aren't really helping the situation. The thing is that as this drags on the GG crazies start to get board and go off to do other things. The anti-GG crazies seem to just be getting started.

That and nobody else but the crazies will talk about anything on the other side.

---------- Post automerged at 11:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 PM ----------

Also, Milo has started a radio show that just had its first episode today. I haven't listened to it yet, busy downloading Tachyon from Steam, so I can't tell you what's on it other then Adam Baldwin and Internet Aristocrat will be on...

https://soundcloud.com/radio_nero/radioneroep1_1

As always, take from it what you will.

Edit: Also here's a youtube channel that aims to keep up to date with recent happenings, named Gamergate News.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_V5gwszHf4

 

So, in summary, you don't care therefore it's immaterial?

Gotcha boss.

 

It sort of is immaterial. I didn't like this woman when I found out about that charity she trashed. The only thing her cheating on her boyfriend did to me was make me not want to date her. But I don't care, because it doesn't matter.

It's like if my boss was caught cheating on his wife. And when his wife told people about it, it also came out that he was embezzling the company.

What part of that should we focus on? Hint: It's not the part you seem to think it is. But hey, just a stand up job on ignoring everything I said.

But hey. Maybe it does have some significance in this argument. Maybe the fact that she cheated on her boyfriend can be used to show that she's a bad person, so therefore she's likely the type of person who would go on to do these other things. The point that you so sarcastically avoided is that there is a huge difference between shaming someone for something that doesn't affect you, and raising a legitimate argument about an issue (corruption in video game journalism).

On one side, you're just an asshole, and a part of the problem. On the other, you actually have something valid to say.

 

What problem is that then? Because, in your situation, I AM an asshole.

I couldn't give two shits if she banged any 'journalist' interested to further her shitty 'game'. It doesn't affect me. I'll never play her game and anyone saying it's worth a try will immediately be on my 'journalist' black list.

People ignoring the fact that she was in a relationship when this happened, treating it as immaterial DOES affect me, though. Watching as infidelity becomes more and more a non-issue and virtually shrugged off burns me up inside. It infuriates me.

By definition, it's affecting me.

Just as her getting that indiegogo brought down angered me, though to a lesser extent.

Don't tell me what I can and cannot prioritize, or who I can and can't judge (as you judge me).

My involvement in this shit storm extends as far as talking about it here and refusing to frequent sites that are linked.

I suppose that makes me problematic. And an asshole.

 

Been reading bits of everything. Just gotta say on the morality debate....

I don't think you can really define one evil thing as worse than another. The consequences of one evil thing can be worse than another depending on your culture/society, but it does not change the fact that it is still evil.

Infidelity is downright evil. Same as using sex to move ahead. Same as lying. Same as murder. All should be treated with disdain. If we allow evil in any form to escape notice just because the consequences are less...can we truly call ourselves good?

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.' Edmund Burke.

 

I don't understand people who think informal social control is bad. It can be used badly, yes, but it can also be very good. I'd rather a world where we "slut shamed" both men and women instead of just women (and men for the socially acceptable but degenerate behaviors that are propagated by society currently), but I would rather live in a world where people look at the actions of others and feel that they can step in and say "Listen, that wasn't right what you did there." than live in one where anyone can do anything they want that isn't illegal.

 

Says fucking who? Is a battered partner immoral or evil for sleeping with someone else? Is someone who feels trapped in a relationship by societal expectations or kids? What about sleeping with multiple people at the same time without being explicitly in a relationship with any of them? At what point does someone become an adulterer and at what point does it become this terrible crime?

What is so horrible about cheating anyway? It's just a betrayal, that's all it is. The only difference between it and talking behind your friend's backs about them, or buying a different brand of soap, is scale. The world isn't going to end. Nobody has been irrevocably harmed.

You may both have your own deeply personal hangups about cheating, but that's just it. They're yours.

And for the record, if you think adultery is the same as murder, you seriously fucking need to go and reconsider your moral landscape.

Just to go back to an earlier point:

Because like I said, literally nobody gave a shit until now. There was an issue raised 2 years ago and people left, right and center commented on it, the Guardian and Forbes both ran influential and interesting articles, important industry people did interesting industry things... and nothing else happened much. Some problematic aspects of the gaming press were quietly resolved afterwards, without much aplomb. Not a single site ran an article telling Gamers that they were a bunch of misogynistic neckbeards. (That should be a clue)

The reason it is different this time? The reason you're seeing censorship and accusations of misogyny and these $2 hack articles? Because this isn't the same argument that's being had now. I'm sorry, it's just not. Time and time again, the gaming press have shown the ability to take criticism on the chin, make appropriate changes and move the fuck on. In the wake of the Zoe Quinn revelations, this was precisely what was going to happen. Kotaku (one of the primary sites affected by the original scandal) issued a statement to this effect. A couple of other news outlets did too.

If this story had been about anyone other than Zoe Quinn, then it would have been done in 2 weeks.

Instead it blew out of all proportion into this crazy mess. Because Zoe Quinn, as Zoe Quinn is want to do, rallied SJWs to her cause. And instead of going "wtf, this isn't even an SJW matter." Gamers, and the misogynists taking the free opportunity to do what they do best said "YEAH BUT SHE'S A SLUT!"

 

En man, I just got done saying that most everybody has moved on from Zoe, in fact I've heard her called a whore in this thread more then everywhere else. People here are literally giving her more attention then she was getting anywhere else on the net once it was confirmed she was just a cog in the machine. Most people, now, want to see these connections of nepotism and the like undone, and as has been pointed out, most of this wouldn't have even happend if the sites in question had been more proactive with coming forward and investigating these things.

But that's not what happened. What happened was that they all shut down any discussion of it, and when that didn't work they decided they would launch a smear campaign against their own customers.

Edit: As for Zoe, and this will be the last time I say anything about her unless she becomes relevant to the current situation. While I'm not going to call her a slut I will say that sleeping with five other guys and emotionally manipulating her boyfriend to help her career is not the actions of a person I would consider as someone to hang out with.

 

I definitely think that you're wrong about the percentage of people that focus on Zoe. The only reason that this exploded to the degree that it has is due to the censorship and hack articles. Neither of us has proof as to what the current majority of GamerGate cares about the most. Saying that it is automatically bad due to the origins is a genetic fallacy.

Edit:This was directed towards enembee.

 

I find it interesting. In one moment you are claiming that infidelity is my own personal hangups, yet in just the next paragraph claiming that my moral landscape is wrong. Essentially you are claiming moral authority here yet trying to justify infidelity. For centuries infidelity has been considered morally wrong, yet you are trying to justify it. What stops the murderer from justifying his actions? What stops the pedophile from justifyng his?

What do you base your morality on that murder is wrong and infidelity is right? Situational? Well then for the hypothesis, I feel really trapped in my marriage. I should just murder my wife. Let me say this, if you and signficant other agree to be exclusive..you should end the relationship or talk about an open relationship before doing this.

You say irrevocably harmed..well I believe that her boyfriend was greatly harmed if he felt the need to write as long a blog as he did. Cheating hurts people. Emotions can be just as deadly as physical acts. Perhaps you have never really experienced this, but I can tell you that betrayal and cheating -do- irrevocably harm. Ask any counselor or psychologist to tell you how detrimental negative emotions can be to a person's life.

Evil is evil regardless of the severity of the consequences. I do not believe that you can quantify evil. You can quantify the consequences. Murder ends in someone dead for example. However at the end of the day, it is the lesser evils that allow/cause for the greater evils. Why does the man who finds his wife cheating on him murder the woman and the man she is cheating with?

 

This is... not about Zoe. It never was, not really, she just happened to be the lit match that sent the whole house up in flames. It's about nepotism and the fact that there's this clique of individuals in the gaming industry, which overlaps heavily with the 'social justice' crowd, who support each other financially, in addition to trading reviews and awards. The entire thing is a sickeningly incestuous nest of pit vipers and agenda-pushing PR people, pretending to represent gamers while just using us as a platform to pontificate about their parody of equality. And if anyone points so much as lifts a finger to object, then out come the lies and vitriol, the accusations of misogyny and faked death threats. Like an ammo dump exploding, each bit of damning evidence that comes to light sets off more of the same, and with enough successive shitstorms you eventually arrive at something that can be called a consumer revolt.

Enembee (and the others who don't agree), I don't know what to say, other than I understand why you view the situation the way you do. To the viewpoint of an outsider, we're supposed to look like harassers griping over trivialities and rooting around in peoples' personal lives. That's the narrative that is being put forward, and it's a difficult one to interdict, because the enemy is the gaming media (or an appreciable fraction of it, anyway). Take a step back from the drama surrounding Zoe and consider the legitimate grievances. You've acknowledged that game journalism is corrupt and that changes have been quietly made in the past when this has been brought to light.

Great. That's what we want. Accountability, transparency, and a few choice firings. But that's not what we've gotten; this time, they drew a line in the sand and launched a coordinated attack on the gamer identity. Moderators being coerced, back-channel agenda setting, threats and harassment... You can't make this shit up, honestly. The proof is out there and has been organized and cataloged by those more zealous than I. All you have to do is look and have an open mind. Between all the censorship, collusion, all-around untrustworthiness, and sheer, unmitigated hypocrisy, they've pissed off enough people that they may actually have to be held accountable this time.

 

First off all please don't focus on the ZQ angle, this is old news and not really relevant anymore. Anyway her sex life was only in so far relevant as with whom she slept and what that meant. If people want to shame her, do it over TFYC&Wizardchan...

There are many idiot's jumping in on discussion's and dropping horrible lines "lolo yeah rape her!1" but I refuse to be labled as a misogynist for that. But people on the 'GG side' need to address these idiot's and take a stance against open sexist, homophobic & most of all threatening comment's. While I see that many people do that already, I wish more would take up that fight.

On journalism, please watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-7RLxrsJ04 A lawyer talking about ethics in journalism, it's pretty damning.

On tropes vs women, I think this needs to be adressed in this discussion too, since it got swept into the discussion. Another point where our established media has just taken this just at face value.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MxqSwzFy5w This is Christina H. Sommers picking apart some stuff, now before you go "bwaah right wing think tank" check out this too: https://medium.com/@cainejw/the-factual-feminist-a-factcheck-f5ae584f56da

(having an issue with spellcheck? there got to be errors in here, but it shows nothing...)

 

It would be the ideal, but the problem is, Gamer Gate is doomed to fail. Why? Not only because of the assholes, but because the mainstream media already picked a side, a side that it has been covering for years, and it's doomed.

People from GG seem to think that because they are main market, the gaming press will be forved to hear them, regardless of the outside. But that it's not reality, casuals won't touch that because of fear against blacklash or they just don't care, product placement and adverstising is big too, if BBC is calling you mysognist, well son, pack up and try again, a new begining that hasn't been stained, and preferably as far way for 4chan as you can, it's fame as the 'cesspool, Anonymus, pedo' has not been improved with Celebrity leak.

No, you tried, and so did Red Aviary and Hugplx, and worse, you tried to pretend that you were being objective.

It's not, that's why GG is doomed, it's the whole media, social, press, they already have a stance on that, and it won't change, trying to force the issue, like I said, well... Not saying GG has great, valid points. The game press is so horribly messed up, it needs more change, SJW are (in my experience) as hysterical, egocentric and intolerant as the people they claim to fight, but feminism in the gaming world per se isn't a trash cause, just as GG isn't, but it also has been to trash thanks to the same kind of people.

I hope so, I want to see a world where shit like in-game DLCs, released betas as complete games, games without many main functions just to be sold as DLC isn't accepted and is heavily criticised by the media, a media that uses the 1-10 score realistically and doesn't accept the same game every year with barely tweaked things here as 8-9 games. But GG won't be able to do, as I see.

Well son, what else do you call someone that spills more shit than the New York sewage? Asshole don't cover it for sure.

 

Because if you don't, then others will come to see this type of behavior as acceptable/tolerable and perpetuate it themselves. I'm not saying we should lynch her or anything, but allowing it to just slide away until the pattern repeats and establishes itself as something permanent is just plain wrong.

If you don't like your partner, get away from them. Don't cheat. It's that simple.

Just a betrayal? You must have had some really fucked up life experiences if you think betrayal of any sorts is acceptable. For betrayal to happen, and then be ignored, is only inviting further betrayals.

Are you even from this fucking world?

 

But that's the point. She didn't betray me. And anybody who legitimately thinks people need to be shamed for cheating so they are punished is an idiot. As if they don't get punished by having to face the consequences of their actions when the spouse finds out.

But, Hugplx, this is what is actually irritating me. Cheating is that significant of an issue to you? Fine. But please show every other person you've shamed, because you don't get to shame one person and say "but we have to shame her for cheating to stop!" And honestly, if you really think that shaming her is gonna make some bro in timbuktu stop and not be a dick to his girlfriend, well, I've got a bridge to sell you.

But yeah, you're god damn right im judging you and every other person who is making a big deal out of the fact she had a boyfriend. Because it's arguments like that that helped turn the tide towards "they're all misogynist assholes".

 

Well I gotta disagree here strongly. If she were some politician or some otherwise important person that has some role model in society I would agree.

But she is not, the only thing relevant in this is the implication what this meant about the JOURNALIST's who slept with her and gave positive reviews without disclosing their relationship.

I know how the guy feels, was there myself (but to a way lesser extend, I admit), still it took me over a year to get over that shit... The guy has my sympathy, but the role of her sex life has no longer any consequence on this discussion, like others said for nearly a month.

edit: damn ninja'd by Samuel, I was responding to Odran. :/