The whiteknighting here is sickening.

I'll just reiterate that while I find Zoe Quinn deplorable, it is barely more than a side-issue at this point. As far as I'm concerned it's a settled matter: she's a slut, let's move on to the bigger fish. The only reason it got brought up again is because the anti-GG shills are trying to push the narrative that we're all rabid misogynists.

 

Game Journalists don't need the general public giving a shit to fix themselves. There doesn't need to be an uproar if it is as you say and journalists know that they are corrupt. They are perfectly capable of making changes themselves. (Unless I misunderstood what you wrote)

One of the biggest scandals in games media was when Jeff Gerstmann got fired from GameSpot for giving Kane and Lynch a bad review, while said game and the company behind it were heavily sponsoring GameSpot. Now I wasn't around back then to know if industry people did interesting industry things or not but to this day IGN is the only games journalists website who runs a separate advertising department. Journos still go to industry event where they get free shit from devs, they still get little care packages and as evidenced by the Zoe Quinn thing, they are still friends with developers and other company peops.

But at the end of the day it comes to an us vs them mentality. And the utter derision Journalists apparently hold for gamers. Something that was hinted at during the Mass Effect 3 fiasco where gamers were called entitled for wanting what they were promised, and driven home pretty well by the absolute Gem Leigh Alexander wrote for Gamasutra titled: "'Gamers' don't have to be your audience. 'Gamers' are over." Containing the same type of bullshit you here from the Games cause Violence crowd, except written by someone who had been victimized by the same type of propaganda.

Also no, a bunch of hit pieces targeted at an audience, 90% of which don't even give a shit about what GamerGate is or who Zoe Quinn is, shouldn't tell me anything other than that some journalists are laughable bad at engaging with the people who put dinner on their table.

 

I wonder why...

 

Did we defend her no or tried to justify her actions, or even denied she is not an asshole (for different reasons, ones that relate to the problem and not her sex life) ? No. Are you using the word slut over and over and keeps trying to use that as some moral base? Yes. Are you a mysoginist? All facts poin that, yes you are.

 

There's a very real, very important discussion to be had on the issue of journalistic integrity in the video game industry.

There's a very real, very important discussion to be had on the issue of female representation in the video game industry.

And it's impossible to talk about any of that properly because of the mouth-breathing fuckwits polluting every thread about it with bullshit about Zoe Quinn, feminism, misogyny, the patriarchy, 4chan, white knights and Anita Sarkeesian. This thread included.

That's why I can't understand why people are still talking about this. Not because there aren't important issues which should be talked about, but because trying to do it under the #GamerGate hashtag is useless when nobody can agree which issue they're actually talking about. There's eight different groups trying to push their agenda at the same time, but all they're doing is talking over each other and drowning out the other seven.

It's fucking pointless.

 

Because calling one woman a slut equates to all women being sluts in your demented worldview, right? I'm not against women being involved with video games, I'm against these kinds of women being involved with video games, because there are few women involved in it as it is without these people representing them and make them all out to be idiots when I'm pretty sure (or at least hope) they're not.

You don't seem to understand that journalistic integrity, women in games and the SJW issue are inherently tied together. You think that because people are calling out SJWs and their stranglehold on the internet that the other issues are forgotten, when they all fall under the same umbrella.

 

So I guess they give up, go home, and let the journos continue to call them disgusting pigs. Right, that's a rap, glad everybody agrees. Coincidentally anybody here with a steam account is a misogynist douche bag, including myself. So somebody should probably get on that.

Now having said that, I would like to point out that doing something that may, or may not be pointless is still better then not doing anything at all, and since the journalists are completely disinterested in even trying to talk, even to those who purposely kept themselves separated from GG that this will probably be the only time to address it.

In short, the journalists have shown no interest what so ever in addressing the issue, and if the leaked conversations are anything to go by they never did. I feel sorry for Totalbiscuit, he's the one who's been trying to establish a peaceful discourse, and not only did they spit in his eye but it appears they don't like him, or other Youtube personalities.

 

Another person got doxxed with the complementary attack on their career:http://imgur.com/zqAUzG5.

 

TB is the Big Youtube Personality when it comes to Vidya, Youtube Personalities are a direct threat to traditional web-based games Journos. Just like Web Based games Journo is and was a threat to Magazine Based Games Journo.

It's an industry rivalry they're taking too far. Especially since he hasn't hopped on the 'hate the people who make sure I have a job' bandwagon.

 

I find it amusing that you seem (I could be misinterpreting) to think people shaming Zoe Quinn for her actions are somehow worse than the serial cheater herself, but the bare bones point you're making here is reasonable.

Zoe Quinn doesn't have to pay a damned dime of attention to those who see her cheating as the main issue in this whole scandal (personally I think it's the motivation and results of the cheating, not the act itself, though said act IS reprehensible), just as we don't have to listen to people who call us all lonely, misanthropic masters of misogyny.

Oh don't be intentionally obtuse. You're just as aware of the point he was making as I am, despite the awkward way it was phrased. Furthermore, understanding is not the same as condoning. Or are we mixing those two up, now, for the pure purpose of trying to 'shame' those on the other side of the argument?

 

Well he's getting pretty close to giving up at this point. In fact most of the moderate who were trying for something more peaceful have been giving up. The only ones on the other side of the fence that are saying anything are crazies that are either spewing so much hate you wonder how they sleep at night or flat out doxxing people.

 

Journalistic integrity is an issue which has nothing to do with Tumblr's vigilante crusade against whatever the fuck they've decided to hate this month. The lack of women in the games industry has nothing to do with publishers bribing media to review games highly.

The one and only thread tying everything together is that this whole shitstorm started when some guy wrote a blog post to vent about how his ex, who made a terrible game and has a vagina, was sleeping around behind his back. That's it. That's the only thing.

It's like trying to solve Detroit's massive debt issues by talking about the end of apartheid, because a girl in Battle Creek changed her Facebook relationship status to 'single' after breaking up with her South African boyfriend, who is black and filed for bankruptcy.

 

This isn't Tumblr, its a crusade led by the corrupt journalist themselves, and its blatantly biased.

Thats the problem.

 

Except that the other half of the pro-gamergate posters in this thread are still calling her a slut, saying that she deserved the abuse she received for being a woman and that it's a closed issue. These are the people you're sharing your crusade with and they are the people that are turning public opinion against you.

So much stupid here I don't know where to begin.

Never attempted to justify infidelity, I just said it's not as big an issue as everyone is making out and it's none of your fucking business.

Also, the fact that something has been considered immoral for years, actually has fuck all bearing on its actual moral standing. For years homosexuality was considered immoral, but I hope we can all agree that this was nonsense.

No, you do not purely judge something on a situation basis. As you yourself said, you judge a crime on the outcome. That's why we penalise things to different degrees in law. For instance, with murder a person is dead and with infidelity they have hurt feelings. This is why, at least in modern, civilised countries, murder is illegal and infidelity isn't. Fuck off if you think there is any comparison here. It's just bullshit.

And yes, if you despise infidelity to the degree that you compare it to murder, then yes you have a serious issue with your moral landscape. That's all there is to it. I'm not claiming moral authority, just common sense.

Because he's a fucking colossal fuck-tard that thinks he has the right to own someone else's body? If you think murder is in anyway mitigated by infidelity, then I'm wasting my time discussing this with you.

Mate, honestly I live in the fucking real world.

I have been cheated on, and been (unwittingly) the person cheated with. In both those instances there has been a betrayal of trust. I've also had a million other betrayals of trust throughout the years, ranging from people talking behind my back to friends stealing from me.

And you know what? I don't think any of those people are irredeemably terrible human beings and they've not emotionally scarred me in any serious way. I've met a lot of people in my life and had a lot of temporary friends and sexual partners. All of them are essentially pretty decent people with a penchant for making selfish/stupid/malicious decisions from time to time.

That's just what the world is like and if you think different you're living in a fantasy.

I'm not quite sure what gives you the authority to decide which is more emotionally painful: being cheated on with 5 guys, or having thousands of people harass and threaten you with violence and rape.

 

Jesus, can we please stop talking about Zoe? It would be difficult for me to give less of a fuck about the cheating angle. That's between Eron and Zoe. Do I think he has a legitimate grievance? Sure. But it's the fact that this bout of indiscretion exposed an enormous web of connections exploited for mutual advantage, and we haven't seen any kind of change in response, only a plethora of abuse being hurled our way, that's the real problem. Robin Arnott, Nathan Grayson, Stephen Totilo, and all the other names out there haven't face reprisal, they've just dug themselves deeper in the vain hope that if they threaten and insult us enough we'll somehow go away. Instead, they circle the wagons and try to make this our fault. From the way this thread has settled on the cheating, they've succeeded at least in part. That legitimately makes me weary.

If there's harassment going on, I don't condone it, because all it does is give fuel to the other side. That said, I would strongly urge you to consider very carefully whether the accounts of threats are actually legitimate. People have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar on this one. Faked dox and false flag operations are things that have been happening. Given the character of some of the people in question, I wouldn't put anything past them. The phrase 'professional victims' springs to mind.

 

I never said anything about those threatening her. I said those shaming her. There's a difference.

Also, as for the harassment. Well, she brought it on herself by being a shit human being. Is she an irredeemable piece of trash who must be killed? No. But does that mean she doesn't deserve to be called a slut for well, being a slut? No.


I don't agree with threats of rape or violence (not that I've actually seen any proof of either, vis a vis Sarkeesian).

Zoe Quinn, is, in the end, just another woman who slept her way to success. It's a pretty low thing to be, in my eyes, but a lot better than lots of other things. That's the sum total of my opinion of her as a person.

As a media figure, though, she was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Yes, the anti-gamer misandry and SJW leanings and journo corruption have been going on for awhile now, but also, for awhile now, discontent and disbelief and distrust have been brewing.

Zoe Quinn's actions just blew the lid off everything, as a result she gets extra focus, extra vitriol, and extra influence than she rightfully deserves. She's not unique, she's not different, she's not special. She's just one example of an entire subsection of low class people. She could be replaced by one of many, many, many others, and the whole GamerGate scandal wouldn't be that different in any significant fashion.

Honestly, I wish she'd go away, I wish we could discuss GamerGate without her name ever coming up, but since she WAS the Straw that Broke the Camel's back, she can't be avoided. Considering her actions and what their result as been, I don't think a little vitriol is undeserved since we are all but forced to put up with her being a topic of discussion.

Threats of Rape and Violence are not okay, they're not, even ones made insincerely (which 99% of them are). I've never agreed with them and honestly think those who make them are just as low, if not lower class, than Zoe herself. Which is saying a lot, because I think she's a terrible person.

 

This is the thing though, without Zoe, there is no discussion. Nobody here is stating that this behaviour is tolerable or acceptable or doesn't require consideration.

No, there isn't. None of it is anyone else's business, I've yet to see any argument that suggests to the contrary. Infidelity is a pretty shitty thing, but that doesn't go any way toward making it anyone other than her and her ex-boyfriend's concern.

 

Had I known this thread would end up a reflection of three or four weeks ago I'd have not bothered. On one side are people wanting to keep bringing up Zoe and on the other are people just as eager to argue about her. Truly if there was any intelligence in this thread it left awhile ago and all posts after it was stupidity, including mine. I'm out.