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The Reality of Sirus' Will

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Skeletaure, Apr 19, 2020.

  1. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    "I don't trust you, Dumbledork, nor your Order of the Fried Chicken," Harry said wittily. "I know you plan to steal my inheritance from me. I must insist that I am the one to administer Sirius' will."

    Dumbledore's eyes twinkled. "I am glad you are taking such a keen interest, Harry. Now, first we must register Sirus' death with the Ministry. Since you wish to be in control of the process, I leave that to you." He handed Harry a series of forms as thick as Hogwarts: A History.

    "Next, we identify Sirius' assets and debts," Dumbledore continued, pointing Harry towards several boxes full of loose papers. "Alas, Sirius did not keep a very organised system of accounts... it may take some forensic accounting to figure out his exact financial position, but again, I trust you will see to this, Harry."

    "The third step is to calculate the outstanding tax which is due, including inheritance tax, and declare that amount to the Ministry," Dumbledore said. "The calculations are complex, I'm afraid, especially for one who has never studied Arithmancy... but I'm confident in your ability."

    Harry swirled his glass of whisky, raised his eyebrow and smirked. "Maybe I'd have been better at it, if Ron hadn't been ruining my education by making me choose to spend my time having fun instead of studying," he said, completely reasonably.

    Dumbledore merely raised a bushy eyebrow. "No doubt, my boy. In any event, the next step will be to apply to the Wizengamot for a grant of probate, which will cause Sirius' assets to vest in you, giving you control over them. The application is complex and involves quite an onerous oath, but I can see you're committed to doing this."

    Dumbledore handed Harry yet another pack of papers marked Application for Grant of Probate. "Now remember, Harry, you must take steps to preserve the value of the estate. If you fail to do so, you are in breach of your duties and can be sued by the beneficiaries of the will for failing to take proper care of the assets."

    "The next step," Dumbledore continued, "is to pay off Sirius' debts, as well as the inheritance tax to the Ministry, which must be done before his assets are distributed. You'll want to investigate whether Sirius had any life insurance to cover his debts, else this could easily eat up a large portion of the estate."

    "Fine," Harry said. "That's it, then?"

    "Indeed," Dumbledore confirmed. "Finally, you may distribute his assets. Of course, you had better hope that the will is absolutely clear, and that you have done all the preceding steps correctly, because if not, those assets can be tied up for decades in legal disputes. I am sure several of Sirius' relatives will be waiting to pounce on the first sign of an error. Well, good luck!"

    Harry stared at the mountains of paperwork in front of him. He was beginning to regret insisting on being the one to control the distribution of Sirius' assets. It would have been so much simpler if he could have just attended Gringotts and have a goblin read out the will, which would take effect immediately. But that would have been ridiculous. The world didn't work like that, and no reasonable person would think it would.
     
  2. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    To be devil's advocate here I can't see a Wizarding Britain that would ever agree to inheritance tax.
     
  3. Quiddity

    Quiddity Squib ~ Prestige ~

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    It is profoundly odd and suspicious that we don't allow fifteen year olds to administer wills.
     
  4. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    I don't know, I can see a small, old fashioned society having a much more streamlined process. If Wizarding Britain has the same number of folk as a small town does, then I don't see why they'd have developed such extensive rules about estates and probate. The number of families with assets substantial enough to really warrant complex rules is probably minuscule.

    I agree that it wouldn't be a goblin reading out a will, all sorted sort of thing. But in small towns the world over, legal proceedings often get abridged and done on a nod and a wink, simplified because "I knew your father, and this is what he'd have wanted", etc.

    I think if I was writing it, I'd probably say the Ministry has an office (likely part of the Department of Magical Law Enforcement), which handles these things, probably just with 1 or 2 employees max, maybe even just a few folk in other departments trained to deal with estate and probate stuff when it comes up. Its most likely a case of anyone who thinks they should be getting something from the dead persons estate turning up to a "hearing" of some sort, and the Ministry representative sorts out the claims there and then, dividing the estate up as they feel is appropriate. Probably based on traditions and precedent. Maybe with right of appeal to the Wizengamot if someone feels hard done by.
     
  5. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    On the one hand, yes, smaller societies tend to have more informal rules based on consensus, reputation, etc. rather than strict legalities.

    On the other hand, wizarding government is generally portrayed as being similar to the Muggle one in terms of its organisation and level of bureaucratic complexity.

    Similarly, if we are saying that the wizarding world is more archaic, then that is also something towards more complexity. The modern probate process is practically transparent compared to the system a century ago - the whole legal system, in fact. Modern legal systems tend to have gone through several rounds of reform to make them more accessible and comprehensible to the general public, whereas the old fashioned approach to law was to throw up as many barriers as possible to prevent ordinary people from being able to participate.
     
  6. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    It is true that the probate process a century ago was remarkably complex. But my understanding is that it evolved that way as a result of having to handle the number of hugely complex estates that came to exist over the preceding centuries.

    And whilst we do see a fair level of bureaucratic complexity in the Ministry, we also see vast amounts of personal discretion built into official practices. For example, when Harry was due to have his hearing for underage magic it was supposed to be in Madam Bones office. She's head of the police force, but was going to carry out a hearing? My interpretation of that is that its similar to how the police used to handle persistent low level, minor offenders. They called them into the police station and gave them a bollocking. The origin of the "caution". And we see Fudge wielding huge amounts of power, from his Educational Decrees to ordering a Dementors Kiss with seemingly no oversight.

    That sort of emphasis on discretionary powers seems to me to hark back to older forms of probate practices. Prior to wills becoming a legal thing (which I think was the 1500s?) inheritance was managed by custom and tradition, with the oversight of the appropriate lawful authority (which at the time was the nobility). Sons inherited roughly equal rights to their fathers farm land, overseen and guaranteed by their local lord. Eldest sons of Earls and Barons inherited the right to the titles and lands of their fathers, overseen and guaranteed by the King.

    Thats the sort of style I think would fit with the size of the Wizarding World, and the sort of culture that it has. Everyone who is raised within wizarding society will have a simple understanding of who inherits what. Eldest son gets the house, unless he doesn't want it. Eldest female relative gets the womans nice jewellery. Money goes to the spouse if they're alive, and if not gets split evenly amongst all the children. Simple rules that will cover off 99% of the inheritances.

    Especially if you consider that I don't imagine many wizarding families have huge amounts of things to be passing on via inheritance. A few objects of sentimental value, whatever money they have in Gringotts, and maybe a small area of land with a house on it. Give how self-sufficient magic can make you, there's not a huge need for material objects to be passed down the generations.
     
  7. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Part 2.

     
  8. Alindrome

    Alindrome A bigger, darker mark DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    Haha, this is the reply to inheritance fics I've been waiting for.

    Gonna follow this up with a third part to make a tasty trilogy? Maybe Harry tries to sue Gringotts, surely that would go well for him.
     
  9. aAlouda

    aAlouda High Inquisitor

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    After being betrayed by both Wizards and Goblins clearly the next step for Indy Harry is to seek justice from the muggle government a place without discrimination and corruption far beyond thsoe backward wizards.
     
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