1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

Abandoned The Stranger Trilogy by serpant sorcerer - M

Discussion in 'The Alternates' started by Rahkesh Asmodaeus, Sep 10, 2005.

  1. BsuperB

    BsuperB Headmaster

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,138
    Location:
    England.
    True, I've always wondered what it would be like on the big screen, only with decent actors to replace the Trio etc.

    Meh, my argument holds no grounds but still; it's a waiting game. Jono could keep us waiting as long as he wants, it's his call. I personally think he has at least another chapter or 2 ready, or are in the beta process, he just won't tell us.

    But I'm not fussed, I have other fics I can re-read untill Promised i updated.
     
  2. Imperius

    Imperius First Year

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Nowhere Important
    Can someone please post Chapter 5 & 6 of the "A Stranger in the Promised Land". According to his yahoo group, these are finished but he hasn't posted it on the ff.net. Is there any other location where he posts his fics.
     
  3. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,216
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Blocksberg, Germany
    >.<

    Yesterday:
    Go read the thread. Page 10 for me (usual settings), but at any rate, post #182.
     
  4. BsuperB

    BsuperB Headmaster

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,138
    Location:
    England.
  5. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,822
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    Rofl. About time.

    *Goes to read*
     
  6. Blaise

    Blaise Golden Patronus

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    6,193
    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Annnnd there goes my diligent studying.
     
  7. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,216
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Blocksberg, Germany
    My thoughts exactly. So far, I'm getting the big Harry/Katie vibe. If it does happen, I'm looking forward to it. I very much like how Jono writes her, and there aren't nearly enough Harry/Katie stories anyway. I'd like to see it happen *shrugs* So sue me :p
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2008
  8. Blaise

    Blaise Golden Patronus

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    6,193
    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    It's probably gonna happen, but I don't know if it'll necessarily be Promised Land's Katie. As in: he'll start up something with Promised Land Katie, ditch her when he finally portals out, and start paying more attention to his own world's Katie.
     
  9. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,822
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    Pretty crap chapter. Starts off okay, but there's just too much wrong with it for me to call it good. Where to start...

    Firstly, we have more of the retconning that I posted about before:

    If the Dark Knight knew about the Trace, Harry should.

    If the Dark Knight knew it was more than a normal sword, so should Harry. He should know all the spells that the Dark Knight placed on it, and in fact recall putting them there.

    Firstly, the same thing applies: if the Dark Knight did it, Harry should know how and remember doing so.

    Secondly, at the end of Unholy Land it said that Harry himself upgraded it the second time, not the Dark Knight.

    All this is just lazy story telling, as well as extremely annoying, for the reasons I gave in the other post, linked above.

    Next up, Harry's disdain for the French... no idea where this came from. I have a feeling that the author was trying to be funny, but he failed utterly. For a start, Harry showed no such attitude during GoF. Secondly, it's not in Harry's character to be blindly prejudiced.

    The other major problem is this whole "Battle for Harry's soul" thing that's going on. It's a complete non-issue and the author is trying to make it the main theme of the story. Yes, Harry is a soldier. Which makes sense, given that they're in a fucking war, a fact that none of the other characters seem to have realised. Solders kill in war, that's kinda the whole point.

    Stuff like the following is just stupid:

    This mystery guy (whom I suspect is a horcrux brought to life, like CoS Riddle) has been a thorn in Harry's side for the entire story so far. And now Harry passed off the chance to kill him. He even wants to go back to fight him again, but what's the point in fighting if after you've won you just let your opponent up again? The whole thing was just completely retarded. If Harry had killed Grindelwald's lieutenant then it would have turned the mission from a victory (getting the horcrux) into a rout.

    This links into the rather odd characterisation that this chapter was full of. Even compared with previous chapters (already all over the place in terms of characterisation) this one was off the mark. The author apparently has decided to turn this into a hurt/comfort story.

    Seriously, it read like one of those stories in which Harry is abused by the Dursleys so that the author can write a story about Daddy!Snape coming to rescue him. Only instead of Snape, we have an incredibly annoying Katie. He's pussifying Harry immensely just so he can have him have an emotional break down so that Katie can build him up again.

    HE WAS PERFECTLY FINE AS HE WAS.

    Finally, the entire premise of this story is beginning to break down. That is to say, Grindelwald instead of Voldemort. It could have worked. It could have been great. But the author decided that he wanted to keep it exactly the same as canon in terms of history and setting, only with Grindelwald as the bad guy, and so transplanted everything about Voldemort onto Grindelwald. The names of his followers, the decisions they make about horcruxes, the Dark Mark, the whole deal.

    And not only is Grindelwald's character raped (had the author not been lazy and thought it though then the events of the first war would have been different had it been a continuation of Grindelwald's reign) but the Order is too. I speak, of course, of the complete bullshit story fed to us about why Sirius was Katie's Godfather, and why Pettigrew was their secret keeper. It was ridiculous, and all the time the author had the audacity to have Katie insulting Harry for (reasonably) not grasping such a far-fetched idea that just goes to show how much the author is willing to sacrifice good story telling just to get things fit.

    The whole thing just doesn't work.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2008
  10. BsuperB

    BsuperB Headmaster

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,138
    Location:
    England.
    Meh.. I think it was pretty good.

    I won't go into great detail but still, I liked it, worth the wait IMO..

    Katie - liked how she was written, believable and well.. how I sort of imagined her, only briefly when mentioned during Quidditch though.

    As for the Dark Knight - Harry only regained a few memories through nightmares. I still think memories of the Dark Knight will be coming to Harry even though the Cap was broke in In Unholy Land - if it all came back at once, surely his brain would implode or something?

    As for the disdain for the French - It's just a British thing, I think anyway, being British myself. I don't know why, we've just always had this thing against the French. Maybe because they surrender too easily, maybe because we beat Napolean, I really don't know..

    The new DADA teacher was a shock too, but if you think about it, it makes sense due to the whole 'Parallel, but different universe' - eagerly awaiting chapter 8.

    Oh - About the Mysterious man with the mask, I can see what you mean Taure, about Harry beating him & then not killing him; but I think it's kind of showing that Harry's trying to.. I don't know, quench the Dar Knights fury, try to show Kaite & Riddle that he's still human, even if it is only just..

    Just my thoughts & i'm probably wrong, but still..
     
  11. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,822
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    Um, no. Apparently you didn't read my other post:

    We also know from earlier chapters that Harry was absorbing and thus gaining control over the Dark Knight's skills by absorbing his memories via Occlumency, taught to him my Nicolas Flammel in the Room of Requirement, so that rules out the "He has his skills but not his memories" line of argument. Which would be a silly line of argument anyway, since the skills and the memories are inexorably linked.


    I too am British, as you would see if you saw my Location to the left of my post. And hating on the French isn't a British thing, it's a British cliche. There's a difference. Even when we do do it, it is done in jest, not in the seriousness like in this chapter.

    I mean, come on. Harry making ridiculous "jokes" about the French in the middle of a mission?

    The author seems intent on turning Harry into a COMPLETE FUCKING RETARD. Katie in this chapter is right - Harry is acting juvenile, and like a small kid. This doesn't make me like Katie though, because it's clear that Harry being juvenile was put there solely to make Katie look more mature in comparison (because she's a girl, and thus of course has to be more mature than Harry, despite the fact that he is a war veteran).

    And if you liked Katie in this you have serious problems. Her moralising wouldn't be so bad if it weren't written as if she was actually right about it (the narrator definitely sides with Katie's viewpoint).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2008
  12. BsuperB

    BsuperB Headmaster

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,138
    Location:
    England.
    *Frowns* Well excuse me for not trawling through another post..? I suppose I should have read it in hindsight but there you are.

    Location - It's rare enough I read the names of people who comment because I just tend to read comments & carry on scrolling down as usually, I don't post my own comments.

    Still - Harry obviously has some knowledge, maybe something changed between Unholy & Promised? Highly doubtful but eh.. I don'w know. Maybe Jono's going for a different approach with Harry? Sure that'll piss people off, but people change.

    Harry in a way, eventually had his own war to fight in Unholy, whereas in Promised he didn't have that much of a problem untill the whole 'new Prophecy' thing with him & Katie intertwined.

    Ok, so maybe Harry was too ofensive to the French, but some are more so than others? I really don't know, i'm probably missing the concept somewhere or it's just getting too late for me to comprehend or understand much.

    As for Katie - what's wrong with her? The main Beta is a female, so it would make sense if it seems like Jono is siding with Katie. Ok, so an author shouldn't be biased towards a character in a story, but i guess it happens sometimes.

    At the end of the day I'm just glad the chapters out. I'm sure others will tear it apart, dislike this, like that, but it's just opinion.. more people will most likely support your points & shoot me down, but there we go.

    I'm still hopeful that the story will pick up as it goes along like Unholy did, but I guess in a way there are more aspects to look at, plot-holes to include.. ok, that's bullshit but still, I was going somewhere with this before my mind wiped.

    Edited for my god-awful spelling & grammar - I blame having an ancient keyboard with broken keys.
     
  13. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,822
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    I posted on his group:

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stranger_trilogy/message/6713

    HULK SMASH.


    Her character is forced (her reactions and viewpoints don't stem naturally from her experiences - the author wants her to be a certain way and so she is, despite the fact that she shouldn't be), her ideals are a thinly veiled sermon from the author, she's bitchy, whiny, self-centred, self-righteous, unable to consider the idea that she may be wrong and others may be right, she has warped the story and all the other characters in said story around her like a black hole (e.g. Harry's character has been changed just so the author can indulge their hurt comfort fantasies with Katie; to make her look more mature Harry has been downgraded into a 6 year old), she's the female cliche.
     
  14. BsuperB

    BsuperB Headmaster

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,138
    Location:
    England.
    Hmm, fair enough.

    Personally I think it's kind of spot on with modern day society teenage girls, but that might just be me thinking that.. probably why i'm miles off actually. But either way, at least she's not as much as a pussy as canon-Harry, so I think.

    Still, mayb she'll change as the story goes on & start to 'man up' a bit? Here's hoping anyway. I'm not too fussed about Promised unless something in it serves a major important point in the third part of the Trilogy, which of course it will, stupid fool that I am.

    I really want Harry to just snap into perma-Dark Knight in the third part, but I guess we'll see.. best be off, sadly education's a bitch & I need an early night =\. Good points Taure, i'm often too narrow minded to look at chapters in deep thought & wonder what seems different or wrong.. i suppose I just like to read what's available & be happy about it =\.

    Cba to edit for grammar & spellings till the morning so forgive me.
     
  15. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,216
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Blocksberg, Germany
    I have to agree. Riddle's talk with Katie was one wtf moment after the next -- I mean

    Eh, y'know ... I'd say, you can decide quite rationally to not go killing random persons, but maybe that's just me. And then this just takes the biscuit,

    So what he says is essentially this, a soldier is the antithesis of someone who is 'good'? Or maybe even the other way round, any soldier who has fought and killed in a war is a bad person by default, and has (or had, back then) no 'goodness' inside them? What kind of logic is that?

    However, I'm still holding my hopes out that this is just done to illustrate a flaw on Riddle's and Katie's part.


    Edit:

    Did he run out of things to put before the chapter or what?
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2008
  16. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,822
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    At least Umbrella is better than Team America, which was the song at the beginning of this chapter. I think he actually took the lyrics seriously too.

    When you're taking Team America seriously, you know something has gone wrong.
     
  17. Sorrows

    Sorrows Queen of the Flamingos Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    2,986
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    I found myself hating both Harry and Katie in this chapter, most of the reasons have been said.

    One that really gets me is Harry standing around and going 'wow she so much smarter/sharper/a better teacher than me.' Jono is obviously trying to give Katie merits to balance the Dark Knights knowledge, but its just not working.
    Personally I haven't really liked this story, it just doesn't flow as well, what he needs to do take down the lot and go over it without his betas being up his arse.
     
  18. fuubar

    fuubar Headmaster

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,101
    And here I was expecting more pointless nothing in this thread.... (Even if I was part of it...)

    /me scurries off to read.
     
  19. The Sour Kraut

    The Sour Kraut Seventh Year

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    Where the beer flows
    I haven't read the entire chapter because I actually got fucking bored halfway through (at the Riddle/Katie scene).
    Most things have been said but I want to add a more general complaint about the author's writing:

    First of, he writes way too much for what he wants to tell. The current chapter is over 40,000 words and could be reduced to about 15k without losing plot or flow.
    He explains every action and every fucking thought five times. It's the whole "show, don't tell" problem. Explaining is almost always bad style.
    This was a very minor problem with the first story, but it gets out of hand.

    Secondly, he writes useless scenes. For every scene an author should be able to answer the question "What is it good for?". So I ask, what is it good for to write 3-4 pages about some muggles visiting Versaille?
    The same goes for the Order meeting. We don't need to know about everything that was discussed.

    Thirdly, the Katie-Riddle dialogue: I don't need much action and love good dialogue and character scenes, but this was crap. It's never fun to read a scene where one character just explains something all the time, because it feels like he was explaining it to the reader. (He did the same with the Binns scene) See my first point.
    And it very much feels like a self-insert where one character just says what the author feels.

    About Harry/Katie: I still think it could be good or even awesome, but only if the author gets a grip on the story and makes the chars more natural. We all now what he is trying to pull of with the whole Katie saves Harry from going dark and emotionless thing, but he is trying to beat this thing into the reader with a sledgehammer.

    I will read the rest of the chapter, but not yet.

    I think we should have seperate threads for the two stories as I believe the overall rating would be vastly different.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
  20. Rahkesh Asmodaeus

    Rahkesh Asmodaeus THUNDAH Bawd Admin DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,128
    Location:
    Atlanta
    I posted a few messages on his yahoo group. People in there are retarded. I'll copy/paste my original review here:

    -----------------------------------

    It just pisses me off to see Harry so pussified. In Stranger, he went
    from being scared and weak to a strong and confident fighter. In the end
    he took out Voldemort in a very public way, guaranteeing everyone saw
    him win and humiliate Voldemort. Much better than the ending of DH
    (though I didn't mind that either, fit with the rest of the books).

    Now it seems as though Riddle and Katie are becoming the mouthpieces for
    Jono (or the beta... I'm actually hoping it's the beta, as I hate to see
    Jono go down this path of self-righteousness and pussy footing around
    fighting and killing the enemy). Everything that Harry has done in the
    Stranger is wrong and immoral according to Katie and Riddle, and the bad
    thing about it is -- they're starting to convince Harry of this too.

    Not only is Katie even worse than canon Harry in terms of being a
    fucking bitch, Jono is taking the stance that she's in the right about
    acting like she is and Harry is in the wrong for defending himself.

    For example, the part where she starts up on Harry for having Sirius as
    a Godfather (like he purposely had Sirius as a Godfather to spite her).
    She is completely out of line, rude, arrogant, spiteful -- yet it's
    Harry who apologizes to her for one little line which shut her up. It
    was the same exact way in the previous chapter when she turned on him
    for being a Death Eater in the Unholy Land. She was stubborn, arrogant,
    assuming, ignorant of what was actually going on -- yet again, when
    Harry shuts her up with a single line, it is he who apologizes, not her.
    It seems to be a trend, Katie acts like a stupid bitch, and Harry
    apologizes, just reinforcing Katie's belief that she is right in her
    retarded and childish beliefs. She is insulting to Harry at all points,
    and Harry just takes it like a whipped dog. An emo whipped dog, even.
    She's even worse than fanon Ginny (and OoTP Ginny, for that matter) at
    this point, acting like she knows what's best for Harry and his life.

    Harry is becoming more and more like he was before he absorbed the Dark
    Knight's memories, and it's bit frightening. I sincerely hope that it
    is the beta, because then maybe the few posts of dissent (among the 40
    or 50 glowing reviews from fanboys/girls) might make a difference. The
    thing is, there's still a story after this one, where he goes back to
    his own world. That's what everyone is waiting for, that is going to be
    the true climax of the trilogy. But if Harry continues along the same
    path, and continues to follow Katie's self-righteous path (I mean
    seriously, not killing the guy that could possibly prevent him from
    going back home? Really, Jono? Really?), that story might even turn out
    to be even worse than "19 Years Later..."

    I normally wouldn't be so irritated, but after more than half a year of
    waiting for this much anticipated chapter, I was extremely disappointed.
    Like Taure said, Stranger was the best fanfic I had ever read. There was
    no part of that story that I didn't like, and every chapter was like a
    breath of fresh air to me. Even when Taure was complaining about the
    previous 6 chapters, I still held faith that Jono knew what he was
    doing, and that he wouldn't completely destroy Harry's character, which
    he had so carefully built up through hundreds of thousands of words in
    the previous story. Now, I'm not so sure. The Jono fanboy in me has died
    a little.

    This part is to the beta:

    Please, please, stop the mushy crap. It does not belong in this story.
    The Katie/Harry aspect came out nowhere, it was just as bad as the
    'monster in Harry's chest' in HBP. Jesus Christ. This story is really
    starting to remind me of book 6. -_-

    And really, after half a year of having the chapter, there should be no
    plot holes or spelling or grammar errors. The plot holes were pointed
    above, I just have one spelling error to point out. It blared out at me,
    it's kinda hard to miss. Seems like you spent more time on interactions
    between Katie and Harry than on continuity issues and spelling.

    [[Riddle looked at him for a moment, before answer. "I cannot in all
    honesty say," he replied. "It was a theory and it was my intention to
    make six Horcruxes, the seventh piece being in my body. It sounds like
    your Dark Lord is a logical extension of what I once was, Harry. I'm
    sorry, but I think it is a safe bet."]]

    ... yeah. 6 months, eh?
     
Loading...