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Abandoned The Stranger Trilogy by serpant sorcerer - M

Discussion in 'The Alternates' started by Rahkesh Asmodaeus, Sep 10, 2005.

  1. Thurisaz

    Thurisaz Backtraced

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    After 6-7 months of waiting, and this is what we get? Jono has done a turn around that makes the people on this site feel like retards because we can't understand what the hell happened in the newest chapter. If this is what Jono is going to write for now on I'm quitting after the next chapter.

    "Sobs, and goes to room to smoke weed, to make the pain go away"
     
  2. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Jono just posted in the group. Apparently, he moved and had no internet. He addressed some issues, I have his post below, but I have to say, it didn't really convince me.

    I have to look further into SIAUL again (or perhaps Taure will), but the way I read it, Harry and the Dark Knight merged. I.e., there's a new person, which adopted the skills and memories from the DK, and Harry provided some vital parts of the character-traits, i.e. some moral standards: the new person is not "dark", it kills when needed, but it is no monster.

    (Funnily enough that contradicts Katie and Riddle verbatim.)

    But my point is here, at the end of SIAUL, there is no "battle" going on, where either part is dominating the other one; there is only one part. That seems to directly contradict what Jono wrote in his post , "Then again, Harry himself peaked through a few times". Perhaps he ought to read his own story :?

    "Harry has since arrived in a new place, and here he and the Dark Knight are pulling in opposite directions."

    The same -- if my above point applies, this simply is impossible. There is only one part -- with whom should it argue about which direction to take?

    Meh. Jono argues the same way everyone defending the story did, disputing a regression in the first place (even if he doesn't say it explicitly) by trivialising the level of integration at the end of SIAUL, ignoring the quotes from the story.


    Whatever. I don't really feel like explaining it yet again, in the group. I believe I did it once, and Taure so far at least three times. Jono somewhat missed the point with Katie as well ... I guess that happens when you have to wade through 600 emails as he said, so I'm not really blaming him.

    Only, actually answering the major points of the critique, that it doesn't.



    Dear All,

    Sorry about my lack of contact recently. I have recently moved house
    and when i finally got hold of BT to connect my line they found they
    needed to do a load of work first and tried to charge me A LOT for it,
    so I told them where to shove it and went with Tiscali who then took
    more time to do it but without the hefty fee. Anyhow, I am now back
    online. I have had over 600 emails to wade through, and to try to make
    sense of. I have outlined a few points below.

    Seems lots of people are unhappy with chapter seven and the
    regression. Oh well, you can't please everybody. That's the trouble
    with so many readers. I know the the Dark Potter crew read it and are
    now objecting. But at the same time, many readers don't want that kind
    of dark fic. All I can say is that the picture is not complete yet - I
    can't say the full picture will be to your liking, but that is your
    choice.

    Betas:
    Right, hold your horses ladies and gents. The "aww" comment in the
    Author's Notes seems to have confused some of you quite a bit. Kathy
    embellishes some parts and smooths over the rough edges around what I
    right in those situations. She does NOT add in new bits taking the
    story in a new direction. The hints of romance were my choice, not
    hers. What I originally wrote had all the romantic subtleties of
    George Lucas dialog, which she smoothed over into good prose. The
    insinuation that she somehow corrupted my work is an insult to both
    her and me. If you don't like the direction I am taking, tell me,
    don't take it out on Kathy who gives up her time to help me out. I may
    deserve the flak, she doesn't. Think before you post.

    Harry's Identity Crisis / Regression / Retardation:
    At the end of SIAUL, Harry had control over the skills and instincts
    of the Dark Knight, and together they defeated Voldemort. They were
    both pulling in the same direction - Voldemort. Then again, Harry
    himself peaked through a few times, refusing to kill him initially,
    before he was forced to accept he had to kill. Harry has since arrived
    in a new place, and here he and the Dark Knight are pulling in
    opposite directions. He has an attachment to this world, while the
    Logical Dark Knight is pulling him home - a for a certain reason.
    Also, Harry is beginning to question himself, and with no one to
    reassure him he is on track, he is faltering. Remember the words of
    the prophecy. As for being a child at the end - emotionally, he is
    very young. Harry was rubbish with girls to being with. He is now
    lonely, confused and has no one to turn to - any wonder he is a bit
    apprehensive?

    Katie:
    Someone said "the worse thing is that the author writes as if Katie is
    right" - err....from her POV I have to - that was she learns as we do.
    I can't write "Katie thought xyz, but in truth it was abc, but she
    didn't know it yet". That is telling, not showing and i have fallen
    afoul of that before - not again. She believes she is right. Whether
    she realises she is wrong, or whether she accepts what Harry needs to
    become remains to be seen. They have a complex relationship - if it
    can even be called that.

    Romance:
    There were hints earlier, so I don't think it really came out of left
    field. However, do you honestly think I would make it that easy? The
    picture is incomplete - the trouble with chapter by chapter releasing.

    Criticism:
    I am fine with, as long as it helps. "it was shite, byeeeee!" is not
    helpful. I hated it because x, y and z, I can make a note of.

    General Points:
    ~ Upgrading stun-baton - he only lengthened it. Not that impressive.
    Engorgio?
    ~ Bunny - nice spot ;) Clever bunny.

    Status:
    Written large parts of chapter seven - not sure how much left. Depends
    on where I break it off....


    J
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2008
  3. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Yeah, I don't really find his response satisfying, as I believe its a new interpretation on what was originally intended at the end of Unholy Land to smooth out the discrepancies in the plot, but I'm not going to argue it. I've said my piece, I've got nothing more to say on it. Anything more would just be pointless trolling.

    No doubt I'll continue to read and continue to be disappointed. Until towards the end of this fic of course, at which point Jono will maybe have caught us back up to the end of Unholy Land in terms of character progression, only to cast it aside once more at the beginning of the 3rd fic.
     
  4. della_couer

    della_couer Second Year

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    Michigan
    You may not like it, but I think he does have a good point in saying that key aspect of Harry's 'regression' may stem from the lack of support he has in this new world. That was perhaps one aspect of his reaponse that I found convincing. The more I consider the character development at hand the more plausible it seems.

    Don't forget that in the Unholy Land he had his family, Dumbledore, and Flamel there to tell him 'yeah, you may do bad things but you aren't a bad guy.' For someone who is just coming into this new identity as Dark/White Knight, that was sort of was important in keeping him grounded.

    Now you have a world with no Dumbledore, his worst enemy is the wizarding world's conscious, and his family had perhaps an even worse fate in this world than his home. Not only that but Katie, someone he generally tends to see as a voice of good in this world, is constantly questioning his sanity. Maybe it is understandable that he would be forced to question it as well.

    Maybe I'm just reading with a more jaundiced eye at the moment, but I'm less annoyed at this chapter than I was on the first read. Here's hoping the next chapter won't take quite as long. Grins.
     
  5. ZeroTheDestroyer

    ZeroTheDestroyer Auror

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    I am getting there
    I have to admit I really want to read the latest chapter, I know the story has been going a bit slow lately but it adds to the realism. But yeah I hope the next chapter is also long.
     
  6. jjack1003

    jjack1003 Second Year

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    hope the story does not get abandoned. I like it
     
  7. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    jjack1003 --

    Two things. One: You don't need to comment on every single story in the library (*hint*) because, two: to do that you have to bump old threads (also called necro-posting); and while that is quite alright, as long as you have something interesting to say, one liners like yours don't qualify.

    Especially not those that aren't even proper sentences in a grammatical and/or logical sense.

    Pro-tip: Invest more time into post-quality, that'll reduce your quantity automatically, since both are in inverse proportion to one another.


    Which in a certain way would mean that if he in the end almost ends up becoming the monster Katie fears, it would be because of her fears in the first place -- like, she 'saves' him in the dramatic final, after being the reason it got that far.

    Personally I don't agree, but I guess it's become somewhat of a moot point by now. It's not like I can change it, and neither will I drop the story, just for that.

    As I said in one post in the group, just read it as a Post-OotP story, rather than a sequel to a Post-OotP story -- that way, it works just fine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2008
  8. Kang

    Kang Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    Hold on, but I distinctly remember Nicholas Flamel saying what a great piece of construction his modified stun-baton was.
    A simple engorgio would not suffice. But we don't need to know how he did it, the simple fact is Lightsaber!Harry FTW.
     
  9. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    And making it in the first place is pretty impressive. Making a better version, even if its only marginally better, just shows that Harry (should be) more skilled than the Dark Knight.
     
  10. Rahkesh Asmodaeus

    Rahkesh Asmodaeus THUNDAH Bawd Admin DLP Supporter

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    But he has all the Dark Knight's memories and instincts, which means he's at the very least as skilled as him.
     
  11. LuxDragon

    LuxDragon Fourth Year

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    Self-doubt probably. Which kinda makes Harry kind of a weenie. After all the shit he's been through, you think he'd develop some self-confidence or something even resembling a backbone for life, not just fighting. Isn't that what the army always has in their commercials?
     
  12. mjc

    mjc Seventh Year

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    I'm basically reading this as...

    "Ooops, I majorly screwed the pooch on this and it is too late to change it now...to bad my more aware readers caught it..."

    If a story is going to be in multiple parts and a major issue is resolved in part one, you don't need to revisit it in part two/three/etc and drop back a few steps to do it all over again...any semi-intelligent reader will be able to follow the progression.
     
  13. BsuperB

    BsuperB Headmaster

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    At the end of the day, what's done is done on both our parts & on Jono's.

    People here & other reviewers have pointed out the faults, Jono has written the story thus far. Jono has messed up & apologized for it, or perhaps this all has some larger role to play in the story later on.

    Who knows? The point is, people should just accept that Harry isn't as bad-ass as he was in the first Stranger. Why? Who knows but Jono. Several good opinions have been put forward (morals, nobody to back him up) and I personally believe Harry is holding back because of Riddle; I doubt he still fully trusts him & possibly doesn't want to go all-out in front of Riddle or his 'lackeys'

    That said, i'm most likley wrong due to the Ministry fight, but meh.. people will either accept the changes without much care & carry on reading. Or, they might dislike the changes & carry on reading, or simply dislike/hate the changes & not bother reading the Trilogy anymore.

    Personally, i'm sticking with it, as I've yet to read a decent DE!Harry, let alone one mixed with inter-dimensional travel, which is always really cliche', or simply awful.

    Just my opinion thus far.
     
  14. monkeyjustin22

    monkeyjustin22 Muggle DLP Supporter

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    Could any one mirror chapter 7 as was done with ch 6? Or possibly email it to me. It's tempting to stop reading after hearing your reviews but I have to much invested time to stop now :p
     
  15. Innomine

    Innomine Alchemist ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Uh... read it on the yahoo groups page like everyone else does?
     
  16. Blaise

    Blaise Golden Patronus

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    IIRC, Jono takes a while approving members, although that might've changed since earlier this year.
     
  17. BsuperB

    BsuperB Headmaster

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    Indeed, he has his Internet back & should be approving members within a day of you applying, maybe slightly longer.

    Looks like people are going to start badgering him for a Christmas chapter.. here's hoping the majority keep their mouths shut.
     
  18. velapis

    velapis Muggle

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    Anti-French Comments

    I just read the latest chapter and I was very disappointed by the quantity of anti-French sentiments Jono's version of Harry displayed.

    I myself am French, but I've also lived in the UK and none of the British friends I have hold such views; sure, they often make jokes about the French, but they're always just jokes!

    It's not that I was offended by these recurring insults - I was merely disappointed by the level of stupidity it shows in Harry (and maybe Jono?).

    And if you feel like I'm just being a French pansy :D, just think how tiresome it is to be exposed to the same anti-American rhetoric that is clearly unfounded in reality.
     
  19. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I think the anti-French stuff that Harry was uncharacteristically spouting was Jono's attempt at humour.
     
  20. SerDel

    SerDel Third Year

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    I would say that is a character speaking - you can hardly except a 17 year old boy to not sprout such nonsense. Actaully, insulting frenchies is deeply inbeded in british culture , so it kinda adds realistic side to character (*joking here*).

    I, like most of readers, am little disappointed of the sequel. I marveled SitUH for great action (fight in london metro was so matrix style - loved it), innovative use of old cliches and great character development. Sequel is sorely lacing good fights, and Katie's and Riddles moral posturing is simply driving me nuts.

    Still, I intend to keep reading it; this fandom lacks good written interesting fics.
     
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