I could care less if Harry accomplished 5, 9 or 12 OWLs. I didn't read the series to remember what going to school means, to watch Harry doing homework or studying, I read it for the adventure and the awesomeness of magic.

Regardless, I was a bit disappointed when Harry's average skill in magic was confirmed in book 6 and 7. I wouldn't have had a problem if the guy showed talent and good thinking. But it was not the case.
That's why if I had to choose a teen hero, I would pick Percy Jackson every damn time.

 

There also seems to be a tendency in this thread to decide that if Harry wasn't badass by seventeen, he wouldn't ever be, but not everyone operates on the same timescale. There are people who don't start applying themselves until their late teens or maybe even later. People who don't find or realize what they love to do or why they'd love to do it until later. Even at seventeen, Harry would have had plenty of time to come into himself, his intellect, and his magic. There's no reason that he couldn't have later become a great wizard in the second or even first tier, especially in a life that lasts two hundred years. The wisdom of age might have helped him to attain the kind of understanding and drive he lacked in his teenage years.

 

Well his late teens would be the time to do it, considering how his life and the lives of his friends are in direct danger. I mean he's pushed to the edge, but still nothing really comes of it, at least in terms of magical ability.

That said, given that he becomes an Auror after the books I like to think he found motivation there to succeed. He made it to Head Auror after all, and it doesn't seem like he'd want to coast on fame. He hates his fame and getting special treatment from it. I think he'd rather earn that position.

 

Well, we all seem to acknowledge the fact that there was nothing he could have done to catch up with Voldemort at that age, especially with a fifty-year gap between them. He's a reasonable kid, who, if we understand magic correctly, was learning theory at a level that JKR didn't showcase in the books. He struggled with class sometimes, learned advanced theory and understood magic on the level that we as readers are forced to imagine or imply. He would have known, as we do, that he couldn't close the gap, so it makes sense that he didn't try to lock himself in the library and start learning magic because that wasn't the way he was going to win. That's what he told Hermione in OotP, even as he actually did begin to train in general defense tactics.

He prepared himself for general confrontation with Death Eaters and the like, knowing, especially after the Atrium, that there was no bridging the space between Riddle and himself. He probably felt his best chance was to trust Dumbledore, which he did, and which eventually led him to victory. There would be time for skill and academic fascination later.

We acknowledge that magic is probably too theoretically complex for a two-year training montage to have been enough, yet still expect Harry, who, as a generally capable student, would have realized this, to have shut himself up with books in an attempt to win?

 

I agree. I never expected to see Harry closing the gap of knowledge and experience he had with Lord Voldemort or excelling academically. It was impossible.

I just wanted to read about a talented kid, who did what he could with everything he had. JKR wrote the magic concept with Harry in mind, she adapted her system to her hero, it was Harry who never knew how to use the tools he had. The concept is clear: wingardium leviosa and match to needles in first year, etc. In sixth year, she introduces non verbal magic and apparition (digested for the reader). So, as a reader, I wanted him to master those tools, so when the fight started in the seventh book he had something to wing it.
From the start his triumph was clear. Evil never wins in these tales. So, with that in mind, why not add some talent to the moral victory? It wouldn’t have tarnished the hidden message, I think.

 

I'm not sure what other options he could have come up with at that point. Suppose I'm your average Joe with a moderate level of trades skills. I hunt on the side with a .22 rifle, fish and camp when I'm not busy at my day job. Then I find out that there's an older, incredibly skilled woodsman and sharpshooter with a .50 caliber scoped rifle out in the woods, and it's either him or me. What do I do?

I'm pretty sure I would try and bridge the gap, even with the seemingly insurmountable difference in experience and skill. I'd hope that if I got lucky, he would bite the bullet and I would get away. What I wouldn't do is prepare to walk into the woods smelling like deer piss and resign myself to death by maniac.

If shutting herself away with tomes of ancient spells and a thirst to succeed let his mother devise a method to block the Killing Curse, I'm pretty sure the son she saved should have inspiration enough to work towards something other than martyrdom.

 

It didn't.

. . . Martyrdom was precisely what allowed her to defeat Voldemort. Harry realized this in DH, and reused it. So Harry did study, just history as opposed to science. His mother didn't know that was the answer, but he did. He learned the true meaning of her sacrifice, and used it to defeat Voldemort. He knew what he needed to, and he didn't learn it in a book. But he did figure it out for himself.

He had the mind to be great, just in a different way and in his own time.


EDIT: I keep seeing people saying they wanted to see Harry outsmart Voldemort using esoteric and advanced magic . . . Well, he did. He utilized his mother's highly advanced and esoteric act of love, and I emphasize use because the magic of his mother's act was natural, unintended, instinctive, and incidental. He also made use of some pretty heavy wandlore. He won by deus ex because he figured out how to use it. We all pretty much knew that's how it would have to happen, and that's how it did.

If magic is so complex that you can't jettison yourself to Voldemort levels in such a short time, then Harry did what he could, more or less. He went to school, trained in what he was good at, and figured out a damn good trump card with Dumbledore's help.

 

When people talk about Hermione being a genius, everyone seems to forget just how much work she's putting in her studies. Real prodigies aren't working for hours and hours, trying to memorize bunch of fact they can impress the teachers with. They are kids like the Maraurders, Snape or Riddle, who have a true passion for some subject, in which they figure out new things by themselves.

People like Hermione there's a name for them - bookworms. NOT prodigies. Two entirely different things, that get mixed up thanks to standardized grading system.

Tom Riddle was becoming immortal at this age, and was able to lie to Dumbledore without detection

Snape was creating his own spells and adjusting Potions

The Marauders became animagi and created the Maruaders map

Hermione Granger- Um, she can do a 7th year spell. Oh, yeah, and she gets taught by Harry who she is supposedly better than.

See the difference? That's what I'm talking about; brilliant prodigy versus clever little bitch.

 

Once again, dude. You seem confused, and are suffering from the... delusion that every one of those guys mentioned aren't busting their asses to attain those goals.

 

Hermione is smart, yes. But no one here is saying that she is comparable to Riddle and Dumbledore. But yes, her character is flawed where she tries to be the teachers little pet. However, that soon falls aside as she starts breaking rule after rule for Harry and Ron.

I don't think she ever tried at the level she did in PS after POA. People grow up and change gradually, not overnight.

__________________

Hmm, thanks. But that was just paint and not a permanent tattoo. I am just too scared of the needles they use in the parlors.

 

The reason I dislike Hermione is because she's, put simply, an anal bitch. Right from the first book she has a huge superiority complex and what seems like no social skills (she cant even take a bit of childish name-calling, and this extends even to book six.).

I seriously doubt Harry would have failed out of Hogwarts without Hermione. As soon as he got back his first assignment with a great big 'TROLL" mark on it, he would have realized that he would have his ass shipped back to Privet Drive if he flunked out. That's a pretty good motivator.

In book 6, she's just plain stupid. Despite Malfoy being a pure-blood supremacist, with obvious ties to Voldemort (Remember the end of book 4), she still thinks he isn't a DE and doesn't even suspect him when a shitload of dark activity is happening in the school, as well as Harry's account of Malfoy and Snape discussing assassinating DD.

Not only that, but she shows no fucking tact when it comes to delicate situations, example: After DD death. She also doesn't have any of that Gryffindor bravery, example: Not telling Ron she likes him and tossing Lavender out on her ass. Thirdly, she gets worked up over nothing, example: Attacking Ron for no damn reason, aside form the fact that she wants his dick and can't have it.

 

In the real world, afrojack, I definitely agree with you. Late bloomers are definitely possible.

In the Harry Potter world, however, every top-level wizard we're presented with has been presented as being recognisably brilliant from a very early age. That seems to indicate that late bloomers don't really happen in magic - at least for the higher levels. Certainly people can improve later in life (hi Neville), but I don't think they can catch up to the highest levels unless they're there from the start.

 

I only partially agree with you with this Taure.

I believe those who are there from the start have a head start. After all, Dumbledore didn't spend his 110 years of lifetime fully committed to learning. 50 years perhaps, but nothing more than that and Tom Riddle was as good as Dumbledore at 33-35 years age.

In their latter lives, Dumbledore was full time into headmastership and politics and fighting a war on a full time basis while Voldemort was more concerned with building up his network, training DE's and leading and planning attacks. They were applying all they have learnt in RL.

Dumbledore and Voldemort reached the peaks of their powers and their knowledge in everything related to magic in their latter parts of their lives itself.

JKR should have really given us a view of how good they were at 15/16 in detail.

 

I don't think Taure was talking about education.

It's merely that every wizard of great magical prowess has been distinguishable in their teen years.

Do they have a head start? Sure.

But most importantly they just get it.

 

As for Harry not training himself.

The Dursleys made sure Harry didn't get grades better than Dudley. So he never applied himsel in school.

When Voldemort returned he was busy with OWL's, teaching the DA, Occlumency, Cho, Umbridge trying to get him expelled. Dumbledore always told Harry to enjoy his time at Hogwarts. Even after he knew Voldemort had returned he was pushing him to enjoy his summer and not worry about anything. Dumbledore went so far as to discourage him and actively kept information from him. When your mentor who is the greatest wizard in the world encorages you to enjoy yourself you do it.

As for Year 6 he was falls in love with Ginny and devotes his time to get her. Even in HBP Dumbledore encourages him to find a girl for himself. He was also busy trying to find out Malfoy was upto.

You can't blame Harry for not training himself.

 

Ever notice that all three greatest wizards of HP timeline are unmarried. And since Harry does and creates 2 little Harry's and a Harriet, the answer to the question 'Did canon!Harry ever reach the heights of Dumbledore and Riddle' is obvious.

And while Harry's skill with his wand isn't that great, his understanding of old and delicate magic surpasses Albus and Tom by miles, atleast when at the same age. I've re-read the series and kudos to Dumbledore to subtly telling Harry that there is more to magic than wand-waving.

Or it could also imply that fairly skilled wizards and witches are a subject of admiration and they wish to keep that by not stopping to improve and improvise.

The higher levels of wand waving are out of reach for an average Joe, for it needs constant practice and training one's magic to reach a point where high level spells become possible to cast, control and end.

No, he doesn't. Pursuing a girl's affections from what I know greatly differs from what Harry did in HBP. All Harry did was mentally curse Dean, undress Ginny and look at the couple in envy hoping they split up.

'Love' is a term I think comes in the latter part of any relationship. He might have come to love her post-DH, but I don't think Harry 'loved' Ginny in HBP.

 

Can you post an opinion that isn't based on fanon bullshit?

 

Like I said earlier, get back to the books Alexx. You are so much into fanon that it has become your canon.

You know what happens when dreams become your very reality. If not, watch Inception.

 

I honestly couldn't stomach more than a single reread of the Deathly Hallows, so maybe my knowledge is just lacking, but is that really the final consensus on what stopped Voldemort's killing curse? Not a charm that used her self-sacrifice, but really just the sacrifice itself as some higher form of love that caused magic to occur?

When did he learn the true meaning of her sacrifice? I remember him realizing that he need to sacrifice himself to destroy the horcrux inside of him, but I don't ever remember knowledge specifically pertaining to his mother coming to light.

 

You should read OOTP again. Because each chapter shows how hard his life is and how much he is struggling. Expecting him to train himself then is unreasonable.