True. That's a good point. Cody didn't interact with Coil or Dinah, which is key. Then his actions do make a lot more sense as more vulnerable to manipulation by Simurgh.

 

Isn't the cancelling out of one precog's powers by another's more of an active effect than a passive effect? Even if he had run into Dinah, she would have had to have queried something related to the effect The Simurgh precipitated. If she does that then precog vs precog comes in and the effects recursively cancel, if she doesn't then... it still happens.

All The Simurgh has to do is work towards events that wont be 'seen' by other precogs. I imagine most human precogs are limited in scope, like Dinah, so it's probably quite possible unless they are specifically looking for the effects of The Simurgh's manipulations.

Basically, while it is possible, the mere interaction of Dinah and Cody would be no guarantee of cancelling out The Simurgh's influence.

 

I should also have included this from Faultline's interlude:

 

I'd hardly call the latest chapter an interlude, considering all the shit that just went down. I was not expecting what just happened, though it makes me wonder what Scion really is in relation to the Endbringers and if he is not one himself. I wonder if he'll be the final enemy they have to face in the end... It certainly seems like he could be built up that way.

 

Just finished reading and reviewing... Wow, that was beyond description. Most amazing interlude in the story so far. Could barely hold myself not to read even faster.

 

Insanely happy about the end of this interlude. Scion's a better god than Madoka is.

 

I don't know about you all, but Mouse Protector continues to be my favorite cape not named Taylor. Scion was cool too, I guess.

 

Skipping the entirety of whatever discussion you've been having for a thousand posts to say I just got done with the "Hive" arc. It's a good story so far. I like the main character, and the powers used are varied and relatively fresh -- at the very least, they're not all cookie-cutter imitations of Marvel and DC powersets like certain other superhero universes.

I suppose I have some complaints though.

One, the time scale seems off to me. At the moment I think that Taylor's been with these Undersiders for two weeks, counting the week off she had after her injuries in the fight with Bakuda, but it seems like more time should have passed in relation to the events that have occurred. Maybe a month and change? Things aren't spaced out enough.

Two, the term "capes." Maybe it's just me, but I've always heard that word being used in a derogatory fashion from assholes (who're probably Garth Ennis fans too) who look down on superhero comics. Even if it's not used with the same connotation, I don't really like reading it here.

And three, I dislike that analogy made earlier about the superhero/villain situation being like a game with immature people in tights. I fucking hate it when superheroes are dumbed down to "hurr durr tights." It completely misses heroes embodying higher ideals and just makes it out to be, well, cops and robbers, which is really a fault of these comics running for decades and constantly maintaining the status quo. It doesn't help that there don't seem to be heroes in this setting that actually inspire people the way the classics like Superman do, save for maybe that Scion guy that was brought up towards the beginning. They're just celebrities with superpowers. Though since most of what I've seen comes from someone hanging out with a bunch of wannabe villains, maybe I don't have the whole picture yet. By the way, I hope Taylor gets away from playing the villain and actually becomes a hero at some point for a change in perspective.

Anyway, I'm going to keep reading, but I like it so far.

 

Would love to reply but anything I say would be spoilers and in case you do read this don't read any other post because we have long since stopped marking spoilers in this thread.

That said I can safely say there are things you are not aware of that will change your opinion. Well except maybe for the second since I didn't have that problem.

 

Yeah I didn't expect answers on anything, considering how far behind I still am. I just wanted to weigh in a little.

 

Heroes embodying higher ideals and inspiring people like Superman? You've overlooked a few details.

You're absolutely right about the timing of the story being kind of off. It doesn't get better- shit keeps going down with no breaks. It gets egregiously bad around arc 15 or so.

Anyways, as a word of advice, do not read any of the posts around here until you finish the story. There are tons of spoilers. A major one will certainly be discussed tonight.

Don't even try to read responses to your post.

 

Your complaints hold a bit of water (the inner city should be 100x worse, the reasons for tinkers not having large scale revolutionizing technology being weak, the timescale is REALLY compressed, that sort of thing) but yeah, keep reading the story.

 

I think there's some stuff going on behind the scenes there, outside of some of the in-story justifications for it (like Defiant talking about the constant maintenance and calibrations necessary for tinker made devices). I'll put it in spoiler tags, so that the guy who isn't caught up won't accidentally read it.

Spoiler

For one, we know most parahumans are kind of damaged individuals. Their powers typically get stronger with the negative emotions surrounding their trigger event- like getting revenge violently- not trying to improve the world. This has to do with trigger events, and it's been mentioned that the feedback of getting stronger in situations like that has a tendency to reinforce capes being reckless and violent. Because of this, most of the capes are villains, and most of the ones that do end up becoming heroes are still shitty people (Armsmaster, for instance).

Another thing is that the agents/passengers seem to have their own agenda, and given what we've seen of them it does not look like "improving human lives in general" is part of that. For example, Accord. He wants to use his power to improve the world. What his agent supplies him with most of the time though, is terribly violent plans and urges. Accord manages to reign this in most of the time and put his power to use on the things he wants, but it seems to take him conscious effort. For another example, Noelle. She describes the way her passenger has been deliberately twisting and manipulating her emotions to make her more violent.

And the final thing- the Endbringers, Simurgh in particular. She seems to deliberately fuck over those who try to improve the world with tinker/thinker powers. Sphere, a cape who was going to solve the energy crisis and improve space travel, was corrupted by her. Instead, he became Mannequin and began specifically targeting down tinkers who tried to improve the world. She corrupted one of the best parahuman researchers- Manton. She had him kill Hero- the only Cauldron made (and hence, not as influenced by his passenger and trigger event) tinker we know of. (I know Cauldron seems like the bad guys, but remember they legitimately think they're saving the world, and I can think of several instances where the Simurgh has been fucking them over) And the most recent victim of one of the Simurgh's convoluted plots? Accord- who was trying to save the world with his thinker power.

Outside of the Simurgh, we know that Leviathan killed Richter- the cape who created Dragon- before he could really finish his work. I can't think of any good examples of key capes that Behemoth took out off the top of my head.

 

Spoilery stuff follows, but were a billion pages into the thread and everyone knows the update schedule, so I'm not going to bother with tags since I don't particularly want to provoke a spoilertag storm.

So it seemed to me that Scion was shamming Behemoth by not showing up until the end. Behemoth wasn't exactly hurt by Phir Se's attack, but he had all his armor shorn away. If Scion had been there already then, I think Behemoth would have retreated, recognizing the danger. But Scion wasn't there, and the vulnerable capes were too tempting for Behemoth.

Behemoth fought on, confident in the invincibility of his core, not bereft of any of his offensive power. He took more damage from Foil and then Chevalier as the last stand happened, but Behemoth fought until his core was actually exposed, trying to kill the most capes he could while they were still vulnerable. But he stayed too long.

Scion was keeping track of the battle the whole time I think, and waited until Behemoth was in the sorry state he got himself into to appear so he'd be able to actually kill Behemoth before he could get away. I think if Behemoth had been at full strength, with all his armor and limbs functioning properly, Scion could not have gone into Behemoth's element underground and manhandled him out of it again and again like that. Maybe even right after Phir Se's attack and the leg being removed, he could've gotten away. But in the end, Behemoth got too greedy, and now he's dead.

 

that hobo/scion interlude has been one of the most interesting so far and has since had me expecting at least something like this. i can´t even begin to fathom the implications this has however.

we know precious little about scion after all. apparantly not even his name.

so he was the first "cape": he appeared naked, then went away and later somehow got himself outfitted with his costume.

we also know he seems to be semi autonomous in his actions, if not conscious descision making and seems have gotten his "directives" from the hobo.

on the theory that the endbringers are somehow linked to humans gaining powers, this could imply that his "arrival" or "arising" triggered both the awakening of powers in humanity (maybe again) AND "woke up the endbringers also who may be a sort of safeguard against parahumans.

the other thing is, and i will need some collaborators here since i don´t QUITE remember is: wasn´t it implied in the story that behemoth was also active in ancient times before? i know the endbringers are all NAMED after ancient mythological creatures/monsters but i kind of think this was directly implied. sometime after leviathans BB attack. i might be wrong, but it would certainly collaborate my earlier theory: parahumans emerge, endbringers arise, decimate the population to the point it will take millenia for them to get their barings again, then go hibernate till the next time.

not that that takes into account the whole passenger thing though...

HALP! PL0X!

 

I don't really see where you get the idea that the endbringers were active in ancient times.

Btw, Scion's outfit came from that same hobo.

 

My bad then! It was probably this entry from the worm wiki that I confused: "Behemoth is also known as Hadhayosh, among other things. Both Behemoth and Hadhayosh are entities vaguely described in religious texts (the book of Job and Zoroastrian texts from the middle-Persian era, respectively) as beasts comparable to massive elephants or oxen. Hadhayosh, specifically, was large enough to house entire contingents of men on its back."

As I said, I wasn´t entirely sure anymore. Also was the costume part really in the interlude? If so, where did he get it from and who maintains it? The hobo also?

 

Scion didn't have very regular contact with the hobo really. I think the outfit is maintained by Scion's own invincibility, or perhaps another power Scion keeps active because he was directed to protect his own outfit.

 

Except it is always described as either bloodstained or flecked with at least a bit of dirt. To me Scion is one of the most interesting characters in the whole mystery, yet the most unexplored.

 

An epic ending of another epic arc. Whenever I start thinking that this thing is getting old and predictable they manage to surprise me again. I hope that Taylor and the others will get a little breather now to lick their wounds or go to a closest place that serves shawarma.