Yeah, but since when do I ever listen to you?

 

Fair point.

 

Day 2 lynch

Citrus (5) - Regfan, Newcomb, fonti, tom, Lyric
Cuth (1) - fluff
fluff (1) - Cuth
Regfan (1) - Citrus

8 alive, 5 soft, 7 hard.

Citrus was Parian, Mafia 1-shot Neighborizer.

Game over, town wins. Regfan wins with town as the Neutral 1-shot Bulletproof.

QTs: https://www.quicktopic.com/share?s=cs2a

 

Lmao, Reg.

 

:/

 

Gemma is just a badtroll, I was a VT.

 

It ended up not mattering in a results-based way, but for future reference:

The answer to this is actually "no, fuck no, that's breaking game integrity into a thousand tiny pieces, do not post a single word in the thread if you don't know who your scum partner is."

 

Yeah, my bad.
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DLP does things a little different than I'm used to. I don't think it ended up mattering too much because they both knew who their partner was within 12 hours or so.

 

Wasn't it EricF that forced that rule to be made?

 

Is it okay if I ask some questions about my own play here or is Discord better for that? Don't wanna be annoying

 

On FS, yeah.

It's a rule pretty much everywhere, though.

Just rock&roll, Lyric. Postgame's gonna be pretty sedate I think, so feel free to use the thread.

 

omg newcomb reading your qt if you vig'd me this game I'd have never recovered lmao

 

I'm curious to hear a bit more about the Cobalt kill submission / the thought process there.

He's NewBcomb for a reason.
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Hmm @Newcomb / @Eidolonic - Did the possibility cross your mind that I was just scum with a partner I didn't think I had much chance of end-gaming/winning with? Like in a world where Cobalts the lynch D1 and flips scum, would you two have started re-looking at me here?

 

Ummm so I'm just gonna list a lottt of qs and people can obvs feel free to pick and choose or just ignore them all but I'd be so grateful getting anything answered.

What were my main issues with getting townread/how to I project town better? Also what can I just cut out of my play so I'm not wordvomiting everywhere but still projecting town/presenting my reads?

What were my biggest weaknesses with my reads/scumhunting and is there some sort of general scumtells guide or something? Also in reverse is there a good "scum strategy/how to be scum" guide?

Does stuff like getting pushed/general thread stress and anxiety/dealing with things like getting closer to endgame/etc get easier with time or is it always this frustrating? And are those things easier as scum (because you know you're just putting on a role) or not really?

What exactly is spew and how do you determine what's spew?

What do people view as suspicious voting, if bussing is a big thing?

Anddd how does DLP's mafia tend to differ from other forums'?

 

At work so I'll answer them in bits and pieces.

I think you're best having someone like Eido answer this particualr question. But I don't think you had a problem with projecting town here at all, I think it's merely a case of that there were just several other players that were more blatantly town this game for people so it sort of left you lower down on peoples lists and around the edge of the PoE due to it. Only changes I'd suggest you making for this is to actually try and care less about how you're being perceieved and focus more on scumhunting -- the idea of "I can't scumhunt well so I'll focus on clearing myself" is flawed in that it fits hand in hand with "Trying to be town read" which is scums main objective, not towns.

 

extreme yike

 

I think it's difficult to sort of give out "general scum-tells guides", it's something you sort of learn and get a feel for by playing, watching games and things. I think you'll learn a lot more re; how to scumhunt after you've actually played a scum game and sort of been on the flipside of the mindset/motivation wise. I think your biggest weaknesses reads wise seemed to be that your reads were very "Level 1" in a lot of things, X did 'objectively town thing -> therefore I want to town read them", "X happened and therefore people are town". The games a lot more nuanced than that, people do things that are good for town when they're town and thus have to sort of level and do them as scum sometimes. Town do things that are objectively bad, scum do things that aren't completely for their win condition. It's more about looking at read progressions / deeper underlying motivations behind how people are playing.

I'm definitely not the person to help with "how to be good as scum" so maybe ask Newcomb that one?

 

I'd argue the two most important elements of playing well as a wolf are metacognition, particularly of how you sound/feel to other players in the game, and knowing what you can get away with. The level 1 wolf play you see most people reach pretty quickly is "what would I do as a villager", and then more or less follow that pattern of behavior. This, while valid, is only really a good strategy for winning games when the other players aren't very good. There's still a need to act within the scope of your normal play as a wolf, especially if playing with people who know you well, but knowing where you can contradict narratives, push alternate viewpoints, encourage villagers to go down certain paths, etc. is crucial. People fall into categories based on their individual personalities-- there are those who mix up what they do and play with a certain element of chaos regardless of their alignment or goal in that specific game, while others are much bolder/quicker to be confrontational as either villager or wolf. For me, that pans out as me having "good tone", but since I'm not a high-impact villager nor do I try to be one I tend towards interacting with people more than the game, if that makes sense.

That said, I think my advice boils down to "don't pretend you're a villager", "take action as a wolf but watch yourself and make sure it's believable emotionally and is consistent with your usual range", and "actively think about what you're doing, both in terms of what actions you want to make and wrt the scope/narrative of what you're doing and how that comes across". It's a lot to do at once, and practicing will have more effect than anything else, given enough productive input from yourself and others.

 

Think DLP has the most competent player-base of all the sites I've experienced, games here are more logic-driven than elsewhere and the majority of people that sign up for games here genuinely do take them seriously/play to win.

The sites player-base however is smaller than other bigger sites which makes the community more tight knitted here which also means that people have a pretty good about each others ranges and how to read each other, that coupled with having one of the stronger town player-lists that you'll find means games tend to be balanced in a way that'd be considered scum sided elsewhere. Again, Eidos probably best to comment on this though.
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Agree with everything Cuth says re; scum-play.
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I'd try and avoid making too many assumptions when it comes to bussing v not bussing and things like that. I've seen scum lynches that contain no scum, I've seen scum lynches that are led by scum (I won a game over at MTG where I hard pushed on a partner all of D1/D2 and had them push me back). I've seen scum late buss a partner when they're in trouble. I've seen scum be the deciding vote getting a partner lynched. It's all very situational and the less black/white you view it the better. Look into the motivation/reasoning behind the vote, the timing of it. Try and sort of look if you can see how the person got to that vote/if you believe they got their organically, or try and read into whether they really believe what they're doing/saying there.
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Example here would be why I gave Fluff got credit over the Vaimes lynch when I didn't give any to Citrus. Citrus was in a position where he's leaving the thread knowing that the lynch is going to end up on Cobalt/Vaimes, if he throws down a vote on Cobalt and Vamies gets lynched, he's going to look /really/ bad and he's never going to win from there. His vote didn't secure the lynch on Vaimes by any means, nor did it drastically increase the odds of it going through. His vote there could have come from him as town since there was some progression towards the Vaimes vote, it just merely wasn't a reason to rule him out from being scum. The difference with the Fluff vote was that he can easily vote Cobalt at the end D1 there after Eido/Myself already had done so, secured a mslynch there and not really looked bad from it because he's just following us whereas his vote sort of forced our hand and made us lynch Vaimes and he's not the sort of player that's going to back himself to end-game in this playerlist.

 

Hi! I'm Stan, I was casually reading this game and I really liked watching you play!

Maybe not always as fast as you want it to, but I think it does. Even if it's only because you're getting jaded about endgaming every time